Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

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sha256
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Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by sha256 » Fri May 31, 2019 6:45 am

OK guys I usually bite my lip because I've been burned way worse than this, but this probably hurts your bottom line.

So first I needed to order just a single card (https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/32gb-em ... -n2-linux/), but the shipping is 16 or 20$, so I figure, ok nevermind guess there's no letter format, I'll get it with the odroid later.

I live in central-eastern Canada and bought a single N2 with card. Shipping charge was roughly the same (good call) 20$ USD ~ 27$ CAD, DHL duties were 35$ CAD, so that's a good 60$ CAD for small box, and the DHL delivery was straight up comic genius.

That's not a surprise at all. That's regular in Canada if you use DHL, UPS, or Fedex, I got it all the time. The problem is you only offer this one option.

If you want to market to Canada, Canada Post (whatever you have that links up with them... I forgot) works out the best, because every other carrier extorts us for duties (the only one I don't hate is Fedex and they extort me anyway, it's like stockholm syndrome) while Canada Post's is capped and often gives me no duties at all, though I'd anticipate it on electronics. Canada Post and Purolator are the only carriers we have who aren't outright thieves (I might be missing a name).
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ASword (Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:21 am)

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by odroid » Fri May 31, 2019 8:41 am

We tried some low cost public post services a few years ago but the shipping was extremely slow(up to three months) and some customers couldn't receive their boards.
So we had to gave up and we are using DHL/Fedex these days.

I think North-America people consider buying ODROID items from our US distributors.
https://www.hardkernel.com/distributors/

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by sha256 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:02 am

I will definitely order from there instead - if that's the only way to get around this. For the record, I'm not looking for a "low-cost" shipping option here from your perspective (except maybe for people buying only cards - how many orders like that do you get? Not sure I trust other sources of eMmc cards for this purpose) - just an alternative shipping option. Canada Post/USPS always charges as much or even a few dollars upfront more than the cheapeest UPS/DHL/Fedex - that's not the issue - it's the way they handle for duties and even the quality of the service (I know americans complain about USPS but Canada Post does a great job overall). To me it's been night and day, seriously a deal-breaker. Even in principle I don't want to support DHL or UPS anymore, but you probably don't care about that.

P.S. I know what you're talking about the 3 weeks, anything cheap from ebay/amazon from China takes 3-4 weeks to get here with the cheapest mail options (free-2$), and I lost 2 or 3 packages over about 10 years. That option only makes sense for people buying cards alone. Granted I don't know how these options look from your end, I'm just saying from my end, this sucked. Thanks.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by cdu13a » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:39 am

@sha256 I'm in Canada as well, and I don't think there is perfect option for shipping here. I find my preferences are rather dynamic and based on which companies local driver I prefer for a given area, and of course speed of delivery. I've had equal amount of random problems with all of them over the years. The handling of duties/taxes in Canada is terrible(you should talk to your local MP about that.), doesn't matter the shipping company(Including Canada Post), I've had problems with all of them.

I don't know about the maritime provinces but in Ontario and Quebec if you are not in one of the bigger cities DHL shipped packages will show up the same way as Purlator or Canada Post shipped packages. DHL gave up trying to deliver outside of a few major cities and just transfers the package to either Purlator or Canada Post depending on area and type of shipping required.
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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by sha256 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:04 am

What were the duties issue you had with Canada Post? It is capped unlike the others. On UPS/DHL/Fedex I get medium to large duties on nearly every U.S. package, whereas CP I had limited small to medium duties and on only maybe 1 out of 4 relevant U.S. packages (I discount the items excluded from duties by policy or practicality, with which it's more like 1 out of 12) over 10 years of several monthly packages across 4 places in one city (more like 1.5 city). The only problems I had with CP (almost getting a 1500$ item rejected) were related to bad policies of the incompetent province. But in general I've found CP as an organization more competent and fair. I've had some asshole employees at CP locations, but they were few and far between. Never had a bad delivery guy with them, and that's 20 years 2 provinces. I believe you, but I trust my own experience enough/more to make a good choice.

DHL last I checked has several programs, I've had both happen to me (at the same location). Many places in the U.S. use that "global" (whatever) option that links up with CP. UPS has such program. But I don't recall this happening to me (ontario) with any packages from Asia or Canada.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by cdu13a » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:15 pm

My problems specific to duty/taxes with Canada Post have been involving payment, I have had a couple occasions where the driver would not accept payment of the exact amount owed in cash for the package at the door. Paying in advance of delivery with Canada Post is also a joke compared to UPS/Fedex, I have had a few times where the package was paid in advance but the driver left one of the come and pick your package up you owe us money notes on the door instead of leaving the now paid for package. While this all gets worked out when I go to pick up the package the next business day, it is a massive frustration having to deal with going across town to pick up a package that should have just been delivered without issue. Especially when it happens on a Friday and you can't do anything about it until Monday. Now to be fair to Canada Post some of those problems are directly related to sub contracted drivers, and how their delivery system works.

I really don't get anything from the US so no experience to compare with on stuff from the there. Most of the packages I get come from Asia or Europe.

My experience with stuff shipped from South Korea is that it doesn't matter the shipping company used you will most likely get charged the taxes but not any duties plus a fee for collecting the tax every single time on goods from a company in South Korea, unless the tax was paid by the sender or you have already dealt with CBSA yourself. This has been my experience since the Canada–Korea Free Trade Agreement came into effect. It was more random before that.

They don't tell you nor do they make it easy to find but both Fedex and UPS will waive most if not all of their tax collection fees if you have an account with them, they both have a free account option as well if you can figure out their websites. This doesn't help with still having to pay the taxes, but cutting down on fees paid to the shipping company is still good.

DHL is hard to figure out. My last DHL package from Hardkernel showed up on a purolator truck, later the same day I had a package from a company in Shenzhen shipped with DHL show up with a Canada Post driver.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by sha256 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:38 pm

Oh yeah, I'll admit a few times, I had CP drivers leave a card when I was suspiciously there that day** (but got ringer problems, so I can't tell with precision) - and because I'm always there - at the shipping location - I can definitely say that problem happens - but really lazy UPS/DHL/Purolator (not so much Fedex) drivers also did this. But even when that happened more regularly (keep reading), there are so many post offices in the city, I have one half a street down. UPS is the only other one with many stores, but it's only good for sending. I use UPS if I hate someone (j/k, not on my worst enemy).

But get this: If you have an apartment, what CP is doing now is installing community mailboxes inside the buildings, and they leave keys in your personal mailbox to pick up the parcels from the community boxes. If you order many things a month, this is a total game-changer. I only have to pick up large packages or if the community boxes are full (it has room for medium-large packages). Try to imagine how efficient that is. All the other carriers are forced to go through the apartment buzzer system and leave cards, which works like crap. CP upped the game and upended them - only Amazon's Intelcom is able to compete. **Furthermore, the drivers really love these community boxes, because it makes their job easier, so they stopped leaving cards unless they really have to. Everyone wins.

So you can see why I love it. But in truth, to me it was already clearly superior even before they installed that. Now it's just night and day. Compare that to Fedex: In my city, the pickup location is impossibly far from where I live, and I have to go there for 50% of their packages. I hate UPS with a passion, and DHL doesn't even seem to have one though surely they do somewhere. DHL is pretty weird, indeed, including the delivery attempts.

I didn't hear about that pact, but I always assumed you can expect any 40$+ electronics from Asia to always have duties. I order mostly non-electronics or small electronics from Asia, and I've never had duties on those, actually. So far this hasn't changed for me.

Interesting experiences nonetheless.

About that fee waving: I contacted UPS many times about such things and they always, always screwed me out of it. It's the worst company. Fedex I believe you "more" that they would do this (didn't bother), and I don't hate Fedex, though I prefer CP by an ocean. Fedex doesn't exploit/treat customers (oh yeah, and their drivers!) as badly in my experience, usually pretty well.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by elatllat » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:35 pm

I think Amazon distribution (or ebay shipping from china) are the only methods that don't invoke a $100 extortion fee on imports. (if you feel like spending your life on the phone with support then get a fedex account)

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by cdu13a » Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:51 am

Well I've never paid anywhere near that much to Fedex. From my experience, on average it tends to be about around $10 + tax on packages from South Korean companies.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by _HC1_dude » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:07 pm

I just paid $30USD to get a HC1 and clear lid to Australia. Seems very expensive. $40 odd AUD for a small light package.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by buzzmarshall » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:32 am

I buy asian goods all the time and have FedEX and UPS as well as DHL accounts and they all will rob you blind if you let them. If you can wait i always find the slowboat from china way almost never nicks me for duties but it takes for ever depending on which one they use in Asia. Expediting the order by using DHL or FedEX for me has always been a up and down thing as one time its cheap the next time its way outta line. After many arguments i found that most of them aren't charging just the real duties but are including a service(paper work) charge as well which is usually why when you get a high one thats usually why.

I really wish HK could just find a better authorized Dealer here in Canada as the one in Quebec is insane at times with his markup up and even just today when i was going to order a N2 and emmc module that i need for a job in a big hurry he wouldn't budge on his pricing and gave me some lame excuse about loosing money last year and this is how they have to make it up and then said they would probably be outta business by this time next year. i didn't mind the 127.00 for the N2 with 4g ram but 45.00 or more for a 16g emmc module is nuts and thats still not including shipping. Anyways thats kinda how i just ended up here right now as i will just bring it in from here. I stopped bringing Asian goods in from the US years ago as by the time you pay exchange, taxes and then duties its just cheaper to deal with the Asian companies directly.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by ASword » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:36 am

Not just central-eastern Canada, out west too! I'd really like a Canada Post option, for all the reasons listed above. My personal pet peeve is Oops (sorry, I meant UPS). DHL seems to mean "Disastrous Handling Levy". Purolator, emphasis on "later". FedEx I generally have a good experience with, but you pay through the nose for it. Canada Post might be slow, at times, but that's okay if it is an available option. If I need something soon, I'll pay to get it soon. If I'm planning ahead, then the slow boat is just fine. Paying more for shipping and duty (on occasion MUCH more) than the product cost is just nauseating.

Another Canadian distributor further west would be good. Having products travel to Quebec and then to me means they've travelled about twice as far as getting them shipped direct!

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:55 am

buzzmarshall wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:32 am
...I really wish HK could just find a better authorized Dealer here in Canada...
I doubt there is enough volume to justify that.
One would need 20 N2 or 10 H2 pre-orders to get the 5% off,
then maybe get a shipping and duty discount due to it in one box,
then people would have to come pick up orders in a large population center (Toronto) to avoid a ~$16 re-shipping fee.
I just don't see it being worth any ones time.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by buzzmarshall » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:24 pm

Ya thats kinda what I figured...

Anyways i just ordered off the main HK site and it came via DHL and was here on Monday but with monday being the holiday i just rescheduled it to be here on Thursday and it was about $26 Canadian for taxes and duties so its not to bad... I deal with some other dealers in Quebec pretty regularly and it usually takes at least 5-9 working days (without expediting it) so all things considered coming from SK was pretty much just as quick.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by sha256 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:55 pm

ASword wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:36 am
Not just central-eastern Canada, out west too! I'd really like a Canada Post option, for all the reasons listed above. My personal pet peeve is Oops (sorry, I meant UPS). DHL seems to mean "Disastrous Handling Levy". Purolator, emphasis on "later". FedEx I generally have a good experience with, but you pay through the nose for it. Canada Post might be slow, at times, but that's okay if it is an available option. If I need something soon, I'll pay to get it soon. If I'm planning ahead, then the slow boat is just fine. Paying more for shipping and duty (on occasion MUCH more) than the product cost is just nauseating.

Another Canadian distributor further west would be good. Having products travel to Quebec and then to me means they've travelled about twice as far as getting them shipped direct!
OOPS is right! I was going great with shipments for 1 month and then newegg sends something by UPS [I told them not to do that, I'm getting tired of newegg, they care less about customers since they became multi-seller, "oops not my problem" is a popular strategy].

So the UPS system reports to the newegg tracking system that it was delivered, and newegg's system thinks it's over. So I look for 1 hour for a card the driver must have left me, right?

Nope, the UPS system marks it delivered [or as interpreted by the external newegg system] because it was delivered to the local UPS office by the returning driver so they can do more delivery attempts. And I got no card despite physical evidence the driver came. How convoluted is that? I can't tell if this is intentional or incompetence. Every time I think "oh it'll be fine this time" they make me eat my words. This is a same-province delivery from a newegg warehouse... come on OOPS get your shit together.

Anyway you guys clearly understand my pain. This could be a support group.

I do have serious problem since a month ago with the slowboat from china, noticed after I wrote this, must be that new deal, all my small deliveries are delayed by 3 weeks and counting, hope this resolves.

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Re: Need alternate shipping option for central-eastern Canada

Unread post by sha256 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:44 pm

I got another OOPS for you: they almost broke my air conditioner ! Stupid hardware store uses UPS for major appliances now (they used to have a truck). They lost one of the straps, so the box was ajar, and stuff in the box was crushed.

And another 30$ in duties to DHL on a small product. It's getting consistent with them.

I can't wait to stop ordering things, who has the energy for this?

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