10GB ethernet instead of 1GB...

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earlye
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10GB ethernet instead of 1GB...

Unread post by earlye » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:47 am

Have you considered, or _would_ you consider building a variant of the H2 with 10GB rj-45 ports rather than 1GB? It seems to me that such a beast, coupled w/ 1TB nvme support, would make a fantastic low-cost node for large kubernetes or cassandra clusters.

crashoverride
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Re: 10GB ethernet instead of 1GB...

Unread post by crashoverride » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:47 am

The board would need to be based on an Intel Core processor (instead of Celeron) to make use (PCIe 3+) of 10GB + NVMe.

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Re: 10GB ethernet instead of 1GB...

Unread post by tkaiser » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:46 pm

earlye wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:47 am
Have you considered, or _would_ you consider building a variant of the H2 with 10GB rj-45 ports rather than 1GB? It seems to me that such a beast, coupled w/ 1TB nvme support, would make a fantastic low-cost node for large kubernetes or cassandra clusters.
  • Those Gemini Lake CPUs (regardless whether they're called Pentium or Celeron) only have 6 Gen2 PCIe lanes.
  • A fast NVMe SSD wants 4 Gen3 lanes (so already bottlenecked since Gemini Lake provides only half the data rates with Gen2 PCIe)
  • Each 10GbE PCIe controller wants 4 Gen2 lanes.
For what you want you would need at least a Celeron G4900 featuring sufficient count of PCIe Gen3 lanes...

With H2 in mind still hoping for the intermediate NBase-T/2.5GbE step instead of unrealistic 10GbE: https://github.com/ThomasKaiser/Knowled ... networking

PigLover
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Re: 10GB ethernet instead of 1GB...

Unread post by PigLover » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:07 am

2x Nbase-T 2.5 is the right approach for this board, as noted by @tkaiser. For things like Cassandra, Gluster or Ceph nodes it would be MUCH better than the 2x 1gbe we have today (though I don't think it would make much difference for router/firewall apps due to small packet performance bottlenecking in the CPU).

Its an almost trivial design change for Odroid to replace the PHYs in another product spin.

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mad_ady
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Re: 10GB ethernet instead of 1GB...

Unread post by mad_ady » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:07 am

How affordable/available is 2.5Gbps networking gear? Are 10Gbps switches usually compatible with 2.5Gbps ports?
The networking gear I'm familiar with (ISP level) makes no mention of anything between 1 and 10Gbps.

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Re: 10GB ethernet instead of 1GB...

Unread post by crashoverride » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:35 am

There are two USB 3.0 ports that can be used to add multiple 2.5/5GB Ethernet ports (and cost) at a customers discretion.
https://www.aquantia.com/products/contr ... u-aqc112u/

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Re: 10GB ethernet instead of 1GB...

Unread post by tkaiser » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:54 am

mad_ady wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:07 am
How affordable/available is 2.5Gbps networking gear?
https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... E3328_2017

But more important... consumption decreases compared to 10GbE and you don't need new cables for 2.5GbE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5GBASE-T_and_5GBASE-T
mad_ady wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:07 am
Are 10Gbps switches usually compatible with 2.5Gbps ports?
Not with older 10GbE switches. More recent ones adopt NBase-T for the simple reason that we'll see more and more 2.5GbE capable clients and other network gear (access points for example that implement 802.11ac Wave 2 or Wi-Fi 6 are already bottlenecked by Gigabit Ethernet). Same with NICs. Intel for example added 2.5GbE and 5GbE compatibility already 2.5 years ago: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/multi ... 32019.html

Mainboard vendors like ASRock, ASUS and Gigabyte more and more integrate AQC-108 (5GbE) and RTL8125 (2.5GbE) controllers... mostly on their 'gaming' mainboards for now.

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Re: 10GB ethernet instead of 1GB...

Unread post by crashoverride » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:52 am

I was revisiting this topic today for something non-related and discovered the math is wrong.

PCIe Speed by Version (per lane):
1.0 = 2.5GT/s (8b/10b) = 250MB/s
2.x = 5.0GT/s (8b/10b) = 500MB/s
3.0 = 8.0GT/s (128b/130b) = 984.6MB/s

This means it would be (theoretically) possible to remove the two NICs and replace them with a single 10Gbit/s Ethernet controller (2 x 5.0GT/s) while still providing twice that (4 x 5.0GT/s) to a NVMe. This implication is that it would be (theoretically) possible to easily saturate a 10Gbit/s link from a PCIe2.0 x 4 NVMe source.

The current prices for 10Gb/s Ethernet PCIe cards I saw today indicate this would likely add $60 to $100 to the parts cost.

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