ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

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ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by kafan1986 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:33 pm

Given that the all other threads got locked by the admin for minor altercation in the posts between members, I am creating this thread for future discussion regarding odroid N2.

Although I am all for arguments and counter arguments as it is pillar for constructive and productive discussion, but it looks like admin here, like to stick with keeping things absolutely 'politically correct'. So guys, keep the conversation little toned down, else this thread too will get locked.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by crashoverride » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:33 am

kafan1986 wrote:it looks like admin here, like to stick with keeping things absolutely 'politically correct'.
The admin has demonstrated remarkable patience in my opinion.

I attempted patience and diplomacy in the past. None of that is effective with someone who's objective is to agitate, sew discontent, and disrupt a community:
viewtopic.php?f=149&t=30307&p=217304

The C2 "debug party" was a remarkable success. We (the community) worked together to resolve many complicated and technical issues. In contrast, nobody has fond memories of the N1 "debug party" because of the constant negativity and harassment. The result is there is now a sense of dread awaiting a future N2 "debug party". Is it going to be a productive and exciting experience like C2, or constant forum flamewars like N1?

I eagerly await N2, and I want to enjoy every bit of discovery and exploration of something new. I also want to engage and participate with like minded individuals. It is just uncertain whether that can be accomplished on the forum at this time. My preference has always been the forum since it leaves a knowledge trail for others to benefit from. However, I am now forced to consider alternatives.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by rooted » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:18 am

I too am ready for a productive and friendly debug party and hope it is possible, but I'm sceptical unfortunately.

Anyone have any evidence that it's going to be Amlogic based?

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by cdu13a » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:10 am

Productive and friendly sounds good, I think things will be good once we have new toys to keep us distracted from other distractions.

Closest thing I have for evidence of it being Amlogic based, is that what is publicly known about the N2 and what is publicly known about up coming Amlogic offerings don't really diverge from each other. Timing also fits well for a certain upcoming Amlogic device as well.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by rooted » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:38 am

Really nothing is known about the N2 that I have read? I mean there are expectations of performance and connectivity but these don't relate to any knowledge of SoC used.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by cdu13a » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:30 am

From glancing back though the posts from odroid we have mention of faster cpu/gpu then the one in the N1, ARM Cortex A73 cores, sampling mid summer, an NDA and it's rough time frame, and then we have the delay. Not much to go on, really.
However, we also have Amlogic showing ARM Cortex A73 cores, with a faster gpu, with mid to late summer sampling, an NDA of roughly the same time frame, and a delay.

Circumstantial at best, but I don't know of many other chips that fit, well at least ones that have all the required parts, with no excessive extras for a sbc and that don't cost way to much.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by nobe » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:50 pm

@cdu13a
odroid also talked about "native DDR4 support" which can filter many CA73 SoCs

@rooted
when you say 'knowledge", are you hinting at the g12b geekbench numbers ?
if yes, my advice is to not give too much meaning to those (for now)...

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by rooted » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:21 pm

nobe wrote:@cdu13a
odroid also talked about "native DDR4 support" which can filter many CA73 SoCs

@rooted
when you say 'knowledge", are you hinting at the g12b geekbench numbers ?
if yes, my advice is to not give too much meaning to those (for now)...
I mean a slip on github, on their site/wiki, just anything to indicate SoC.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by nobe » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:46 pm

the only "known" Amlogic SoC that could fit with N2 scarce specs is A311D
https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/08/03 ... i-g52-gpu/
http://openlinux2.amlogic.com:8000/down ... 180706.pdf
there is also DTS info in this package : http://openlinux2.amlogic.com:8000/down ... 907.tar.gz

my theory is that S922X might look a lot like A311D (something like : similar die but different amlogic business unit)

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by kafan1986 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:57 pm

nobe wrote:the only "known" Amlogic SoC that could fit with N2 scarce specs is A311D
https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/08/03 ... i-g52-gpu/
http://openlinux2.amlogic.com:8000/down ... 180706.pdf
there is also DTS info in this package : http://openlinux2.amlogic.com:8000/down ... 907.tar.gz

my theory is that S922X might look a lot like A311D (something like : similar die but different amlogic business unit)
Yes, A311D is the most likely SOC that fits the bill. But apart from the speculation that Odroid is waiting to get access to the blob from OEM and thus analyzing reported vs actual clock speed of the CPU. The problem likely is A73 cores are "dud", in terms of performance; the benchmark are available online and somehow the claims of the manufacturer both in terms of efficiency and performance, does not actualize in real world. Odroid probably wants to replace XU4 with suitable SBC whose performance can satisfy the consumer need for next couple of year at the least, in current form, A311D does not simply provide enough juice. I speculate Odroid is pushing the OEM to provide higher clocked A311D and extra heat can be taken by suitable thermal solution but somehow OEM might not easily agree to do so, if they have a similar higher priced product, to avoid any sales cannibalization. Seems like RK3399 was a better deal, if the RAM supply issue wasn't such a deal breaker.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11088/hi ... nd-power/6

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by rooted » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:22 am

The N2 isn't really a successor to the XU4 I don't believe, I think there will be an XU5.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by DarkBahamut » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:21 am

I don't think the efficiency is a concern really. Problems in that area are as much about node and logic implementation as it is uarch (Kirin 950 vs Kirin 960). Indeed, Kirin 970 which is also A73 based practical reduced power usage in half which is far more of a gain than a node change should account for, all pointing to Kirin 960 just being a poor (perhaps rushed?) layout.

The performance is just is what it is though :)

What interests me more is the possible node discussion. Some claims/rumours are that S922X is 12nm, but clockspeeds are low (sub 2GHz) which either implies it's not 12nm or it has layout 'issues'. Maybe space or power optimised. Either way I'd expect a true 12nm chip to be more in the 2.3+GHz range so we'll have to see on that one! Maybe we can hope it really is 12nm and we just need to crank the kernel all the way to 11 on the clockspeeds ;)

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by rooted » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:26 am

Here is an interesting (semi-related) article that I just read.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13614/ar ... 6-promises

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:08 am

I want 4 N2's before the end of the year...

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by ASword » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:47 pm

elatllat wrote:I want 4 N2's before the end of the year...
Given the link in the previous post, I’m thinking that an N-2 early next year using one of those next gen SoCs would be worth the wait. Of course most of the production of those is usually soaked up by the smartphone market, but we can always hope!

A HiKey 980 looks like it’ll be worth the wait.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by mad_ady » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 pm

elatllat wrote:I want 4 N2's before the end of the year...
Will you settle for 8 N1s?
Image

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by kafan1986 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:28 pm

A Kirin 980 SBC would be too costly currently and market size will be smaller. From Odroid's perspective I don't think it makes that much sense, given the success of a SBC depends on community's mass adoption. I will be happy if they can provide a sub $100 64 bit architecture based SBC with atleast 70%+ single thread performance improvement over Odroid XU4 with great thermals. Dear lord or Odroid, please make this true. :)

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by nobe » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:12 pm

DarkBahamut wrote:What interests me more is the possible node discussion. Some claims/rumours are that S922X is 12nm, but clockspeeds are low (sub 2GHz) which either implies it's not 12nm or it has layout 'issues'. Maybe space or power optimised. Either way I'd expect a true 12nm chip to be more in the 2.3+GHz range so we'll have to see on that one! Maybe we can hope it really is 12nm and we just need to crank the kernel all the way to 11 on the clockspeeds ;)
Or maybe it's not process node, nor kernel but something else...
There are so many things that could provoke *lower than expected benchmark results* when you know almost nothing about everything related to it (test setup, hardware, software, kernel, etc...)
And proper troubleshouting would require decent monitoring & profiling
It's way too early to claim something like "obviously amlogic is lying about process node"

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by AreaScout » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:25 pm

rooted wrote:The N2 isn't really a successor to the XU4 I don't believe, I think there will be an XU5.
While a XU5 would be very cool indeed, but N stands for Next and ODROID boards where always extremely fast, that was the reason I bought my first one in 2013 (my rpi 1 got too weak really quick)

Therefore I expect something which is really fast

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:36 pm

mad_ady wrote:
elatllat wrote:I want 4 N2's before the end of the year...
Will you settle for 8 N1s?
Image
yes 4 rk3399 (N1 soc) is the fallback plan but I'd rather buy odroid.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by rooted » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:34 am

AreaScout wrote:
rooted wrote:The N2 isn't really a successor to the XU4 I don't believe, I think there will be an XU5.
While a XU5 would be very cool indeed, but N stands for Next and ODROID boards where always extremely fast, that was the reason I bought my first one in 2013 (my rpi 1 got too weak really quick)

Therefore I expect something which is really fast
I just meant they have a history with Samsung SoCs with the X series. I think (hope) we will see an Exynos based XU5 in the future.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by meveric » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:22 am

rooted wrote:I just meant they have a history with Samsung SoCs with the X series. I think (hope) we will see an Exynos based XU5 in the future.
I'd like to see that as well.. Samsung got quite far with their hardware, and I'd like to play around with a modern Exynos SoC.
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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by ASword » Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:54 am

kafan1986 wrote:A Kirin 980 SBC would be too costly currently and market size will be smaller. From Odroid's perspective I don't think it makes that much sense, given the success of a SBC depends on community's mass adoption. I will be happy if they can provide a sub $100 64 bit architecture based SBC with atleast 70%+ single thread performance improvement over Odroid XU4 with great thermals. Dear lord or Odroid, please make this true. :)
Perhaps. My point was more that the A72 and A73 didn't really deliver on the performance gains they were supposed to. The A75 and now A76 look like they are (finally) delivering the goods. Thus waiting for those to arrive (and they're coming in various SoCs in the new year) is the most likely path to a higher performance SBC than is possible with the current batch of SoCs.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by phaseshifter » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:43 pm

i agree with Mr M...but i dont see it happening till at least next june whatever they decide on...pity really...
Build It And They Will Come...Be Bold And Mighty Forces Will Come To Your Aid..!!!

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by rooted » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:51 pm

I was thinking February, not sure why.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by back2future » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:50 pm

meveric wrote:
rooted wrote:I just meant they have a history with Samsung SoCs with the X series. I think (hope) we will see an Exynos based XU5 in the future.
I'd like to see that as well.. Samsung got quite far with their hardware, and I'd like to play around with a modern Exynos SoC.
XU4 is special offer now at 49$ (32bit)
H2 is 111$ (&36$)
How many SoC's would Hardkernel request from Samsung for a XU5?

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:18 am

@odroid send Michael a N2 quick because "A larger ARM SBC benchmark comparison will come soon on Phoronix" (src)... and because he made the C2 look good, and because we want to know :) or if the timing does not work out send a XU4. Though his site is only 2x more popular than this one (~40k vs ~100k) it may increase exposure...

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by crashoverride » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:45 am

rooted wrote:I was thinking February, not sure why.
@rooted, maybe we could all sing a song to pass the time while we wait ...


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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by rooted » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:32 am

crashoverride wrote:
rooted wrote:I was thinking February, not sure why.
@rooted, maybe we could all sing a song to pass the time while we wait ...
LMAO, dude is committed!

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by mdrjr » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:38 pm

Can I have one of those bottles???

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by MobileJAD » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:05 am

I'd like my bottle of milk to be fermented please.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:00 pm


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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by rooted » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:47 pm

It was an interesting read.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by mad_ady » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:59 pm

I doubt that if it's built for Amazon AWS it will have good GPU, video decoding and other attributes that make it a good general purpose computer.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:19 pm

yah and the price + core count would also no align with SBCs but I was just pointing out how the CPU/SOC landscape is changing.
also interesting was the 50% price to performance amazon got from dropping Intel (different article about the same chip).

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-ec ... rocessors/

$297/month (maybe 1/2 that for a 3 year term) for 16 ARM cores with 32 GiB RAM.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by ASword » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:32 am

elatllat wrote:yah and the price + core count would also no align with SBCs but I was just pointing out how the CPU/SOC landscape is changing.
also interesting was the 50% price to performance amazon got from dropping Intel (different article about the same chip).

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-ec ... rocessors/

$297/month (maybe 1/2 that for a 3 year term) for 16 ARM cores with 32 GiB RAM.
Looks like an interesting SoC for my purposes -- plenty of cores (16?), 64b, likely a considerable memory capacity and I/O. They're unlikely to be selling it on the open market though.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by crashoverride » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:26 pm

I found this article about it interesting:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ance&num=1

They are Cortex-A72 cores of unspecified clock rate.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by tkaiser » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:45 pm

nobe wrote:It's way too early to claim something like "obviously amlogic is lying about process node"
At least it's now known how Amlogic process node numbers and their fake clockspeeds will be used in advertising https://www.gearbest.com/tv-box/pp_009434834932.html

Image

So the '12nm' are clearly a true advantage, aren't they?

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:16 pm

USB 3.0 not 3.2... better slow progress than no progress I guess.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by tkaiser » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:06 pm

elatllat wrote:USB 3.0 not 3.2... better slow progress than no progress I guess.
More likely USB 3.0 is cheaper than USB 3.1 -- Amlogic just like majority of other SoC makers buys/licenses these IP blocks here: https://www.synopsys.com/designware-ip/ ... p/usb.html

BTW: USB 3.0 is a protocol revision not a speed class :)

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:46 pm

tkaiser, you would prefer I call them USB
60 MB/s, 625 MB/s, 1250 MB/s, 2500 MB/s
instead of USB
2, 3, 3.1, 3.2
or are you just wandering off on a trivial semantic tangent?
because really it's a 1:1 relationship so there is no ambiguity and everyone else including wikipedia favor using the version.
Maybe the 6 year old USB 3.1 IP is significantly more expensive but I doubt anyone would share that info with us, at least they are not stuck in the y2k;
2000, 2008, 2013, 2017
Just 1 more year until the patent on USB 2 expires and is free.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by tkaiser » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:58 pm

elatllat wrote:you would prefer I call them USB
60 MB/s, 625 MB/s, 1250 MB/s, 2500 MB/s
instead of USB
2, 3, 3.1, 3.2
Call it what you want. I always thought you would be one of the community members here open for reality. Your numbers above are weird since SuperSpeed (defined starting with USB 3.0 protocol revision) uses the rather inefficient 8b10b coding (10 signals needed on the wire to transport 8 bits of data) while the 10 Gbps based SuperSpeed+ modes (the first defined with USB3.1 protocol revision) all use 128b132b coding (only 3% 'wasted' instead of 20% as with 8b10b coding).

The different speeds have (somewhat silly) names since Full-Speed (12 Mbps) is slower than Hi-Speed (480 Mbps) while the names would suggest the opposite. Later there came SuperSpeed (5 Gbps * 0.8 = 500 MB/s) and SuperSpeed+ (10 Gbps * 0.97 = 1212 MB/s) but of course you can also call them both just USB 3.1 if you love confusion (the difference then is just 'Gen1' vs. 'Gen2'): https://web.archive.org/web/20160312135 ... _FINAL.pdf (see there the recommendation how to call the different speeds)

I can't tell you why some Wikipedia authors uses Gbit/sec where they better would use Gbps (data vs. signal rate) and why they do some scary math to calculate MB/s numbers that make no sense at all. MB/s suggests data rate and has nothing to do with signal rate. And the difference in coding -- 8b10b vs. 128b132b -- makes a massive difference wrt data rates here. SuperSpeed end up with a theoretical maximum of 500 MB/s (not 625) while SuperSpeed+ provides up to 1212 MB/s taking the little overhead into account.

Same with PCIe BTW: PCIe 2.x defined a signal rate of 5 GT/s when negotiating Gen2 speeds but also uses the inefficient 8b10b coding while starting with PCIe 3 the more efficient 128b130b coding was used for Gen3 speeds and that's why PCIe Gen3 with a signal rate of just 8 GT/s provides roughly twice the bandwidth (data rate) compared to the 5 GT/s with Gen2 compatible devices (note the difference between Protocol revision vs. speed class. Just like with USB a device can be compliant to PCIe 3 specs but only implement Gen2 or even Gen1 speeds -- same is true for USB: An USB-C cable is fully specs compliant even if it just implements old and boring Hi-Speed data transfers).

The aforementioned coding is also important to understand the new possible speed modes that were defined recently with USB 3.2 protocol revision. Since those basing on 5 Gbps specced cabling inherit the inefficient 8b10b coding so with "USB 3.2" we now have two 10 Gbps speed modes. One that ends up with theoretical 1000 MB/s (two 5 Gbps lanes with the inefficient coding) and one that results in 1212 MB/s (one 10 Gbps lane with the efficient coding). Yes, it's complicated and that's why I just used the TL;DR before...

TL;DR: USB x.y is a protocol revision not a speed class

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:17 am

The complications with speed (bit/byte,base10/2, raw/bandwidth) just make people more inclined to use version numbers.
tkaiser wrote:"500 MB/s ... 1212 MB/s ... both just USB 3.1"
I still think it's safe to assume a 1:1 relationship until I'm shown some popular or significant % of products advertise USB 3.1 and only offer 500 MB/s.
Do you have any specific examples of this up your sleeve?

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by tkaiser » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:10 am

elatllat wrote:The complications with speed (bit/byte,base10/2, raw/bandwidth) just make people more inclined to use version numbers.
tkaiser wrote:"500 MB/s ... 1212 MB/s ... both just USB 3.1"
I still think it's safe to assume a 1:1 relationship until I'm shown some popular or significant % of products advertise USB 3.1 and only offer 500 MB/s.
Do you have any specific examples of this up your sleeve?
Any search engine has those, just do a search for usb 3.1 gen +1 site:aliexpress.com https://www.google.com/search?rls=en&ei ... xpress.com

Whether you like it or not but USB x.y is still just a spec revision and those wo own these specs made USB 3.0 disappear for whatever reasons half a decade ago. So 'USB 3.1' describes exactly nothing at least if it's about the differentiation between SuperSpeed and SuperSpeed+ (that's how these speeds based on signal rates of either 5 or 10 Gbps are called -- better learn to deal with this now than later): https://www.tomshardware.com/news/diffe ... 36941.html

If you see USB3.1 anywhere and 'Gen 1' next to it you know that you deal with SuperSpeed (500 MB/s theoretical max) -- but especially back in 2014 it was quite common for products formerly advertised as being USB 3.0 compatible to be 'USB 3.1' (without mentioning this 'Gen' thing) to trick users into believing they get a new product capable of SuperSpeed+ transfer rates.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:15 am

The first hit was "USB 3.0", so I have not yet seen a real world example of a "500 MB/s ... USB 3.1".

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by tkaiser » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:29 am

elatllat wrote:The first hit was "USB 3.0", so I have not yet seen a real world example of a "500 MB/s ... USB 3.1".
You're kidding, right? 'First hit' -- take the second hit maybe: https://aliexpress.com/item/Wavlink-USB ... 56201.html

Again: USB 3.1 is just a spec revision and doesn't tell anything about whether a conforming product is capable of SuperSpeed or SuperSpeed+. Everything that has been labeled with USB 3.0 five years ago and earlier can and even should be called USB 3.1 since 2013. And also again: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/diffe ... 36941.html

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by elatllat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:52 am

tkaiser wrote:...second hit...
Thanks, I'll be sure to specify raw bps in the future. (and continue to avoid shady realtors)

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by ASword » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:55 am

tkaiser, I'm with you right up until:
tkaiser wrote:who own these specs made USB 3.0 disappear for whatever reasons half a decade ago. So 'USB 3.1' describes exactly nothing at least if it's about the differentiation between SuperSpeed and SuperSpeed+
I'm not sure what you mean "made USB 3.0 disappear". It is still alive and kicking all over the place, as far as I can tell. Certainly a lot of brand new products are still advertising USB3.0, with 3.0 and 3.1 even appearing in the same device on different ports! And in the last couple of weeks I have been struggling with a device/host issue that seems to highlight some sort of "interesting" protocol revision issue between 3.0 and 3.1 (yet to be resolved).

I do agree with your point though that protocol revision numbers is not 1:1 with speed grades, unfortunately. If only life were so simple again, however USB has gone through many complex revisions since its introduction and that inevitably brings confusion.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by ASword » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:57 am

Ah, never mind, that Tom's article explains it right up front. Yet another source of confusion around USB in the industry.

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Re: ODROID N2 Discussion Thread

Unread post by ASword » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:31 am

tkaiser wrote:
nobe wrote:It's way too early to claim something like "obviously amlogic is lying about process node"
At least it's now known how Amlogic process node numbers and their fake clockspeeds will be used in advertising
...
So the '12nm' are clearly a true advantage, aren't they?
As far as I'm concerned all mentions of process node these days are basically lies. Ever since about 65nm or 45nm, how this is defined has started to get pretty squirrely (and it never was particularly "official"). And even at a given process node, the libraries of primitives being used are evolved and improved over time so two devices a generation or two apart on the same process node might be markedly different. Lots of factors go into choosing a process, designing a SoC, and choosing/optimizing the IP blocks that go into it. Don't expect that one number is going to tell you much useful information. I have no reason to doubt that Amlogic or whomever is using 12nm, 10nm or 7nm... but it doesn't mean nearly as much as you think it does (well, unless you're actually one of the engineers making the thing, then you probably are fairly clued in). And it is no surprise that everyone's marketing department beats on that drum.

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