N2+ can support car start?

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zyssai
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N2+ can support car start?

Post by zyssai »

Hi!

I actually start automatically my N2+ after the engine start of my car.
For faster start of N2+, do you think N2+ can support engine startup (and so, voltage down and up in a short lap of time)?
I added a regulator so the N2+ always have stable voltage, but don't think the regulator will support engine startup and deliver constant 12v.

10/36V to 12V 5A regulator
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https://a.aliexpress.com/_vokCmL

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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by odroid »

Is there a signal line which can monitor the engine on/off in your car? I hope your car is not a Tesla ;)

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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by mctom »

I assume you worry about battery voltage dropping under 12V.
N2+ can work with 7.5V-16V input voltage range (or up to 18V in older lots). I don't think you need that "COMVERTER" at all.
Perhaps a capacitor in parallel and close to N2+ would be nice to suppress ignition spark noise, but that's all you need.

By the way, the "comverter" is a really odd thing - they claim it can both increase and decrease voltage. Given its size and build very closely resembling a motorcycle regulator module, I think it's lossy as hell. Maybe it's a boost converter and then linear regulator, or something like that. I don't like it. ;)
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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by zyssai »

odroid wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 8:38 am
Is there a signal line which can monitor the engine on/off in your car? I hope your car is not a Tesla ;)
Yes I actually use it, with a delay relay.
So N2+ start 5 seconds after engine start, and shut off itself after 10 seconds.
If I add start of android image, system is usable around 30/40 seconds after engine start.
Not really bad but I want to improve this.
Unfortunately not a Tesla :lol:

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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by zyssai »

mctom wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 4:21 pm
I assume you worry about battery voltage dropping under 12V.
N2+ can work with 7.5V-16V input voltage range (or up to 18V in older lots). I don't think you need that "COMVERTER" at all.
Perhaps a capacitor in parallel and close to N2+ would be nice to suppress ignition spark noise, but that's all you need.

By the way, the "comverter" is a really odd thing - they claim it can both increase and decrease voltage. Given its size and build very closely resembling a motorcycle regulator module, I think it's lossy as hell. Maybe it's a boost converter and then linear regulator, or something like that. I don't like it. ;)
I need to check voltage at start, because I think there is a drop from 12,5V to 12/11.5V, followed by 14.6V when engine is started, all this in a 3 seconds frame.

You're right with this regulator, I don't really need it, but I had it so why not? :lol:

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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by odroid »

mctom wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 4:21 pm
By the way, the "comverter" is a really odd thing - they claim it can both increase and decrease voltage. Given its size and build very closely resembling a motorcycle regulator module, I think it's lossy as hell. Maybe it's a boost converter and then linear regulator, or something like that. I don't like it. ;)
According to the specification, it is a buck-boost DCDC converter module and efficiency looks fine if the seller doesn't lie.
I think adding a MOSFET to turn on and off the DCDC module might be a solution if the MOSFET can be controlled by the engine state signal.
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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by zyssai »

odroid wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 4:42 pm
mctom wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 4:21 pm
By the way, the "comverter" is a really odd thing - they claim it can both increase and decrease voltage. Given its size and build very closely resembling a motorcycle regulator module, I think it's lossy as hell. Maybe it's a boost converter and then linear regulator, or something like that. I don't like it. ;)
According to the specification, it is a buck-boost DCDC converter module and efficiency looks fine if the seller doesn't lie.
I think adding a MOSFET to turn on and off the DCDC module might be a solution if the MOSFET can be controlled by the engine state signal.
Image

I have made this relay box, the regulator is just after the output, before the N2+

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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by joerg »

I can report about my experience with C4 in my Volvo. It is connected by my interface board direct to battery voltage. I can put the car key and start auxiliary voltage and the C4 boots up without running motor. later I can start the motor and the C4 is not affected at all from this. It means the voltage drop isn't so big that the C4 looses power. I believe it would be the same with the N2 and a voltage converter is not needed. The only maybe needed is a voltage limitation to not to destroy the onboard converters by voltage peaks. But I am not sure if this peaks happens in a modern car. In my car I never have seen this peaks. My interface board has a voltage peak limitation.
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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by mctom »

odroid wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 4:42 pm
mctom wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 4:21 pm
By the way, the "comverter" is a really odd thing - they claim it can both increase and decrease voltage. Given its size and build very closely resembling a motorcycle regulator module, I think it's lossy as hell. Maybe it's a boost converter and then linear regulator, or something like that. I don't like it. ;)
According to the specification, it is a buck-boost DCDC converter module and efficiency looks fine if the seller doesn't lie.
Buck-boost converters inherently invert output and produce negative voltage related to GND. Maybe they have Boost and then Buck in series, that would work, but 93% efficiency sounds like a cherry-picked figure in some special case. :)
But then again, it's completely unnecessary as N2+ will work without that.
odroid wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 4:42 pm
I think adding a MOSFET to turn on and off the DCDC module might be a solution if the MOSFET can be controlled by the engine state signal.
YEsterday I was looking for a MOSFET for my new design and I was stunned these days P-Channel MOSFETs for 5Amps come in SOT-23 packages :shock:
Yup, definitely worth looking into, instead of all those relays. :)
joerg wrote:
Fri May 27, 2022 5:27 pm
The only maybe needed is a voltage limitation to not to destroy the onboard converters by voltage peaks. But I am not sure if this peaks happens in a modern car. In my car I never have seen this peaks. My interface board has a voltage peak limitation.
N2+ seems to have a protection built in against that - I can't google this exact model of TVS, but surely it's well selected. :)
2022-05-27-111013_555x308_scrot.png
2022-05-27-111013_555x308_scrot.png (23.76 KiB) Viewed 167 times
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zyssai (Fri May 27, 2022 8:42 pm)
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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by zyssai »

That's a very interesting discussion, thanks to all of you guys.

I will probably need to make another N2+ embedded car system for a friend.
I will connect directly N2+ so it starts when opening vehicule door, and shutdown when closing it.
That's the simplest way ;)

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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by mctom »

Aren't you worried about the data integrity on SD card, with shutting down like that? :0
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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by zyssai »

mctom wrote:
Sat May 28, 2022 12:11 am
Aren't you worried about the data integrity on SD card, with shutting down like that? :0
No, will make a trigger with GPIO port. Shutdown correctly, and then cut DC power after some delay.

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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by mctom »

That makes sense. :)
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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by mad_ady »

Perhaps you could start even sooner, if you can get a signal when the car is unlocked (via remote). You might get a couple more seconds of boot time.

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Re: N2+ can support car start?

Post by zyssai »

mad_ady wrote:
Sat May 28, 2022 3:41 pm
Perhaps you could start even sooner, if you can get a signal when the car is unlocked (via remote). You might get a couple more seconds of boot time.
Yes I think it's possible, because when I unlock it, I know that glove box light turns on if I let it open.

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