Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

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OregonGunslinger
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Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

I was excited to get my new N2+ as I've been a previous owner of C2's, XU4's, and HC2's with generally good experiences. I have to say that, in comparison, the N2+ sucks. From the moment I plugged it in with a freshly-flashed ubuntu-20.04-4.9-minimal-odroid-n2-20210902 image, it's been nothing but problems. Up to this point, all of my experience has been booting from microSD, several different sizes/brands, and nothing boots reliably. Sometimes, an image will boot once, than after the filesystem expansion, never wants to boot again. The best luck I've had was with the ubuntu-18.04.4-4.9-minimal-odroid-n2-20200229 image, but it's very unstable. Updating the OS seems to result in the N2+ never booting successfully again. Sometimes it's as simple as installing something (htop for example) that causes everything to freeze. I've double-checked and I do have the official 12v/2a power supply. I've used at least 4 different microSD cards with similar results from each. Sometimes the boot doesn't even progress to getting the HDMI port active, sometimes I get HDMI output but no network connectivity. There doesn't seem to be any consistency wth regards to what works and what doesn't.

In short, I'm very dissatisfied with the N2+. It's not even heavy enough to use for a paperweight. I suspect I'll never by an Odroid product again if this is what I can expect now.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by mctom »

Hi!
Are you here to solve your problems, or to share your frustration?
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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

Probably a bit of both if I'm being honest but I'm not a novice to troubleshooting and I've spent a lot of time both collecting data and researching this kind of issue with the N2/N2+ in general. It appears to me that it's not uncommon to see this kind of problem with both the N2 and the N2+, specifically with microSD cards but also with eMMC cards. I have a HardKernel sourced eMMC card coming so I will see if the behavior is any different but I'm not hopeful. I also wanted to provide some additional feedback to anyone that might be considering purchasing one of these. Personally, I would not purchase another one and I could not, in all good conscience, recommend these to anyone else. There are too many other good alternatives out there that just work.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by crashoverride »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:10 am
It appears to me that it's not uncommon to see this kind of problem
I believe it is uncommon. You may have a damaged device.

The official image should boot consistently without issue. If you are not seeing this behavior, then I suspect a hardware issue. HardKernel typically responds during normal business hours (Korea). So, it may be after the weekend before you receive a response.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by mad_ady »

In the meantime flip the boot switch to spi, drop to a shell and update petitboot.Then you can try to use netboot_default to install an OS to HDD over the network. See if you experience the same instability.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by istanbulls »

I've bought 8-10 n2 and n2+ so far for myself, my family and friends. only one n2+ usb3 inputs are broken, others are working flawlessly.

Pretty picky on n2 and n2+ uSD cards so I always use and recommend "sandisk extreme u3 a2 v30".

You obviously have been disappointed, but right now there seems to be no faster, better sbc than n2+ in the world. you got one of the best.
I think calm down and ask for help this forum is full of helpful people.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by nzone »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:53 am

From the moment I plugged it in with a freshly-flashed ubuntu
ahuh :idea: .... I think I have found your problem ;)
OregonGunslinger wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:53 am

all of my experience has been booting from microSD, several different sizes/brands, and nothing boots reliably.

There is an old joke -
Patient - Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
Doctor - well, stop doing that !!!!

I last brought an emmc card when I brought a C2 in 2016.... sorry odroid .... yes I'm a cheapskate.
I've hammered it everyday since compiling kernels, webkit etc. It's been hammered on my N2 and now it being hammered now on my N2+.

Why people use sdcards is beyond my comprehension as emmc cards are not that much more expensive, 10 times faster and much more realible so you end up paying less and they can be used as a sdcard or a usb device. Do yourself a favour and go here -

https://www.hardkernel.com/product-category/memories/
https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/usb3-0- ... le-writer/
https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/emmc-mo ... s-upgrade/


OregonGunslinger wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 5:53 am
Sometimes the boot doesn't even progress to getting the HDMI port active, sometimes I get HDMI output but no network connectivity. There doesn't seem to be any consistency wth regards to what works and what doesn't.

In short, I'm very dissatisfied with the N2+. It's not even heavy enough to use for a paperweight. I suspect I'll never by an Odroid product again if this is what I can expect now.
I had trouble with my first N2+. Hardkernel were completely professional and were amazing at directing me in the process of getting a replacement. Their service was outstanding like I've never experience anywhere else before. I will be a loyal customer of theirs for the rest of my life. Sadly for them, as I have already mentioned, I'm a cheapstake :cry:

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

One of the microSD cards I'm using is a 128gb Sandisk Extreme, u3 a2 v30 and I've not had anything successfully boot from it.

So far:
ubuntu-18.04.4-4.9-minimal-odroid-n2-20200229.img Has booted from a 32gb SanDisk Ultra 32gb HC1. This is the only configuration that has actually run for any length of time but usually locks up within 30 to 60 minutes.
I've checked several of the logs when I've been able to boot successfully but see no indications (from previous log entries) as to why it just stops working.
The syslog just reaches a point where I can see the next boot but no errors or anything that I can see immediately prior to the next boot.
The kern.log and bootstrap.log files are also devoid of anything that appears problematic. I suspect that it somehow just loses the microSD filesystem(s) but, of course,
that precludes any logging of the event. This seems consistent with other peoples experience with intermittent/buggy microSD slots.
What's bothersome is that eMMC doesn't seem to work any better. I've also tried a HardKernel 64gb eMMC flashed with Ubuntu 18 and 20 but neither will boot successfully.

ubuntu-20.04-4.9-minimal-odroid-n2-20210902.img Has never booted successfully. Power light comes on when power is applied. Blue light comes on solid for a few seconds and the NIC activity light flickers.
After those few seconds, the NIC activity light goes out, the blue light goes out, then the NIC activity light starts flickering again and the blue light starts flashing slowly.
After a few flashes (usually between 4 and 6), the blue light goes out and the system seems dead. Red power light stays on and there is NIC activity showing but the N2+
never shows up at the switch port. One thing I notice when I'm watching the boot process is that almost invariably, the blue heartbeat light stops flashing when the
HDMI port is trying to initialize. I can get pettiboot to display if I switch to SPI boot mode and I've seen a few successful boots where the HDMI port initializes successfully
but most of the time everything stops with no console output after the screen flickers a few times.
Note that I always get console output from pettiboot so at a low level the HDMI port seems to be working fine.

DietPi_OdroidN2-ARMv8-Bullseye.img Reboot loop

CoreELEC-Amlogic-ng.arm-19.3-Matrix-Odroid_N2.img Reboot loop

I don't know if any of this is germane.

Oh and did I mention the additional frustration of HardKernel wanting to charge me $46.80 shipping for a $4.00 N2+ cooling fan?

I'm just sayin'...

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by tobetter »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:22 am
I can get pettiboot to display if I switch to SPI boot mode and I've seen a few successful boots where the HDMI port initializes successfully but most of the time everything stops with no console output after the screen flickers a few times. Note that I always get console output from pettiboot so at a low level the HDMI port seems to be working fine.
Does this mean that any OS on your SD card can boot with Petitboot but not stable, whiiist you have Petitboot console output every power cycle?
Would you be able to change the value disablehpd in boot.ini and config.ini in the first partition of Hardkernel's Ubuntu image?
Also from Petitboot console, can you try to run netboot_default and select Ubuntu 20.04 Live System in the menu entries? This will loads OS to the memory through the network and you can run Linux command on it if you success to have a display.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by nzone »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:22 am

Oh and did I mention the additional frustration of HardKernel wanting to charge me $46.80 shipping for a $4.00 N2+ cooling fan?

I'm just sayin'...
You shouldn't blame HardKernel for that, it's cheapskates like me who are the real problem :|

Trust me I understand your pain. All I can say is you are in good hands here. HardKernel will replace your device if it's faulty.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by mctom »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:22 am
I'm using is a 128gb Sandisk Extreme, u3 a2 v30
Not sure if this is the current state of the matters, but a year ago A2 cards were performing worse than A1 on linux due to proprietary drivers or something.
I buy A1 cards only to stay on the safe side. Nevertheless that shouldn't be a problem, they *should* just underperform.
OregonGunslinger wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:22 am
Oh and did I mention the additional frustration of HardKernel wanting to charge me $46.80 shipping for a $4.00 N2+ cooling fan?
That's the price of shipping anything 5500 miles away. Surprised? :lol:
There are official US distributors clearly listed on HK website, you know.
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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

tobetter wrote:
Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:37 am
Does this mean that any OS on your SD card can boot with Petitboot but not stable, whiiist you have Petitboot console output every power cycle?
Would you be able to change the value disablehpd in boot.ini and config.ini in the first partition of Hardkernel's Ubuntu image?
Also from Petitboot console, can you try to run netboot_default and select Ubuntu 20.04 Live System in the menu entries? This will loads OS to the memory through the network and you can run Linux command on it if you success to have a display?
Only Ubuntu 18 has ever successfully booted and only from one specific microSD card (this is the situation where the N2+ will run for some period of time before freezing up). It has not successfully booted from eMMC nor have any of the other OS's I mentioned either directly from eMMC/SD or via Pettiboot.

I will try the other steps you mentioned and see what happens.

Thank You

Cal

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

Tried changing the value of disablehpd to true in both boot.ini and in config.ini. No change. I also confirmed (as much as possible with an intermittent issue) that starting with a clean ubuntu-18.04.4-4.9-minimal-odroid-n2-20200229.img then performing apt update and apt upgrade seems to kill the N2+ too. It continued to run for a time after the upgrade but eventually locked up and required a reboot. I've performed this upgrade twice, on two microSD cards that did finally boot, and neither time have I been able to successfully reboot. I will try booting 20.04 over the network from Pettiboot today.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the netboot_default process. What reading I've done seems to indicate that I need to set it up via DHCP or TFTP, neither of which I have done in a long time. Before I go to those extremes, I thought I'd check back here to find out exactly what netboot_default entails.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by tobetter »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:06 am
Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the netboot_default process. What reading I've done seems to indicate that I need to set it up via DHCP or TFTP, neither of which I have done in a long time. Before I go to those extremes, I thought I'd check back here to find out exactly what netboot_default entails.
You do not have to set up anything about DHCP or TFTP, everything with the menu comes after netboot_default is already provided by my server, http://ppa.linuxfactory.or.kr. Some of them is to install Debian/Ubuntu using their installer image and the rest is to load OS to memory to run without local OS setup.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

So, I boot SPI, into petitboot. Exit to shell, type netboot_default followed by exit back to the petitboot menu but there is no net boot option available. It just shows the existing microSD partitions. I'll try reverting back to DHCP in petitboot and see if that changes anything.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

Going back to DHCP helped in that I now see several netboot images however trying to boot 20.04 Live and 20.04 Net Install both result in failures to boot. I guess this might eliminate the microSD/eMMC cards as the culprits.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by tobetter »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:16 am
Going back to DHCP helped in that I now see several netboot images however trying to boot 20.04 Live and 20.04 Net Install both result in failures to boot. I guess this might eliminate the microSD/eMMC cards as the culprits.
If you do have booting failure with such Netboot method, I also can guess your N2Plus may have a problem.
Would you be able to share logs or screen shot when the booting is failure?

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

Unfortunately, there's no screen shot as the N2+ hangs before the HDMI port initializes. I don't think I can get logs from a failed netboot session but I can try to get a set from a failed normal boot attempt. I've done this before and didn't see anything egregious but I'll try to get fresh set.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

Here are the logs from the one 18.04 system that would occasionally boot. Note that the date/time of the entries is all over the place but only really cover the last 2 or 3 days.

I will try to get the same for a 20.04 boot attempt.
Attachments
logs.tar.gz
(10 KiB) Downloaded 10 times

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

Logs from a 20.04 boot attempt.
Attachments
20.04.logs.tar.gz
(2.36 MiB) Downloaded 6 times

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by tobetter »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:25 am
Logs from a 20.04 boot attempt.
Sorry, attachment is missing also the previous logs from 18.04 also corrupted.

Code: Select all

$ tar xzvf logs.tar.gz 
gzip: stdin: not in gzip format
tar: Child returned status 1
tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
EDIT: 20.04 log is fine.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by tobetter »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:25 am
Logs from a 20.04 boot attempt.
I am not able to see any suspicious errors in the log, maybe the problem would not appear in the log at all.
Would you be able to record a quick video from selecting Live System 20.04 (Experimental) in Petitboot, obviously you should remove SD card or eMMC on your N2Plus. If the Live System 20.04 does not boot or work as expected, I think your board has a problem with CPU or DRAM since it does not use any external storage. Sorry for asking annoying test.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

tobetter wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:53 am
OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:25 am
Logs from a 20.04 boot attempt.
I am not able to see any suspicious errors in the log, maybe the problem would not appear in the log at all.
Would you be able to record a quick video from selecting Live System 20.04 (Experimental) in Petitboot, obviously you should remove SD card or eMMC on your N2Plus. If the Live System 20.04 does not boot or work as expected, I think your board has a problem with CPU or DRAM since it does not use any external storage. Sorry for asking annoying test.
No problem at all. My curiosity has been teased now and I'd really like to get to the bottom of this. I'll try to put a video togethre tomorrow.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by tobetter »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:58 pm
tobetter wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:53 am
OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:25 am
Logs from a 20.04 boot attempt.
I am not able to see any suspicious errors in the log, maybe the problem would not appear in the log at all.
Would you be able to record a quick video from selecting Live System 20.04 (Experimental) in Petitboot, obviously you should remove SD card or eMMC on your N2Plus. If the Live System 20.04 does not boot or work as expected, I think your board has a problem with CPU or DRAM since it does not use any external storage. Sorry for asking annoying test.
No problem at all. My curiosity has been teased now and I'd really like to get to the bottom of this. I'll try to put a video togethre tomorrow.
Thanks. If you have an issue with the netboot method, booted without any external storage, I would say it's totally a board problem. Wish you to test Debian/Ubuntu Netboot Installer in Petiitboot menu entry as well for sure.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

tobetter wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:11 pm
OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:58 pm
tobetter wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:53 am
OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:25 am
Logs from a 20.04 boot attempt.
I am not able to see any suspicious errors in the log, maybe the problem would not appear in the log at all.
Would you be able to record a quick video from selecting Live System 20.04 (Experimental) in Petitboot, obviously you should remove SD card or eMMC on your N2Plus. If the Live System 20.04 does not boot or work as expected, I think your board has a problem with CPU or DRAM since it does not use any external storage. Sorry for asking annoying test.
No problem at all. My curiosity has been teased now and I'd really like to get to the bottom of this. I'll try to put a video togethre tomorrow.
Thanks. If you have an issue with the netboot method, booted without any external storage, I would say it's totally a board problem. Wish you to test Debian/Ubuntu Netboot Installer in Petiitboot menu entry as well for sure.
Ok, No microSD or eMMC cards. HDMI connected, ethernet connected, keyboard USB dongle attached.

Videos are too large to attach.

Ubuntu 20.04 Live System Begins to boot but hangs (blue light goes out) before HDMI is reinitialized

Ubuntu 21.10 Netboot Installer Begins to boot but hangs before HDMI is reinitialized

Debian 11 Netboot Installer Begins to boot but hangs before HDMI is reinitialized

Debian 10 Netboot Installer Actually booted into the installer twice. With no storage attached, was unable to go farther but I will continue investigating this path.

Cal

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

Update, attached a Western Digital USB3 external SSD and tried the Debian 10 Netboot Install. Everything went fine until setting the timezone then the N2+ locked up and the blue light went out.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by tobetter »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:04 am
tobetter wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:11 pm
OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:58 pm
tobetter wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:53 am
OregonGunslinger wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:25 am
Logs from a 20.04 boot attempt.
I am not able to see any suspicious errors in the log, maybe the problem would not appear in the log at all.
Would you be able to record a quick video from selecting Live System 20.04 (Experimental) in Petitboot, obviously you should remove SD card or eMMC on your N2Plus. If the Live System 20.04 does not boot or work as expected, I think your board has a problem with CPU or DRAM since it does not use any external storage. Sorry for asking annoying test.
No problem at all. My curiosity has been teased now and I'd really like to get to the bottom of this. I'll try to put a video togethre tomorrow.
Thanks. If you have an issue with the netboot method, booted without any external storage, I would say it's totally a board problem. Wish you to test Debian/Ubuntu Netboot Installer in Petiitboot menu entry as well for sure.
Ok, No microSD or eMMC cards. HDMI connected, ethernet connected, keyboard USB dongle attached.

Videos are too large to attach.

Ubuntu 20.04 Live System Begins to boot but hangs (blue light goes out) before HDMI is reinitialized

Ubuntu 21.10 Netboot Installer Begins to boot but hangs before HDMI is reinitialized

Debian 11 Netboot Installer Begins to boot but hangs before HDMI is reinitialized

Debian 10 Netboot Installer Actually booted into the installer twice. With no storage attached, was unable to go farther but I will continue investigating this path.

Cal
Ok, thank you for many testing...and let me appologize making you testing the same. If the netboot method keep being failed for some reason whatever you tried without an external storage, it convince me that your ODROID-N2Plus has an issue. Would you be able to capture the video for the moment when you think hangs before HDMI is reinitialzied or blue LED is gone after blinks? Please do send me via email if it's too large to attach, and I don't think you need to try further testing with it.

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

I have videos for each of the test cases I mentioned. I would be happy to try and email them to you if you can provide an email address.

Thanks

Cal

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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by tobetter »

OregonGunslinger wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:42 am
I have videos for each of the test cases I mentioned. I would be happy to try and email them to you if you can provide an email address.

Thanks

Cal
Finally, I've got your video that starts netboot method and it literally convince me that your board does not boot, hangs somewhere after several seconds.
For RMA, please drop an email to odroid at hardkernel dot com with the link of this thread if you had purchased from Hardkernel, otherwise contact with your local distributor.

Thank you for the video and many testing for several days.

OregonGunslinger
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Re: Brand New N2+ and I'm NOT happy

Post by OregonGunslinger »

tobetter wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:04 am
OregonGunslinger wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:42 am
I have videos for each of the test cases I mentioned. I would be happy to try and email them to you if you can provide an email address.

Thanks

Cal
Finally, I've got your video that starts netboot method and it literally convince me that your board does not boot, hangs somewhere after several seconds.
For RMA, please drop an email to odroid at hardkernel dot com with the link of this thread if you had purchased from Hardkernel, otherwise contact with your local distributor.

Thank you for the video and many testing for several days.
Thank you for your assistance. I've arranged for return of the device.

Cal

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