C4+ model?

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cmderkeen
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C4+ model?

Post by cmderkeen »

Will there be a C4+ (8GB ram, onboard BT, nvme slot) to compete with the Pi 4B 8GB?

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by tobetter »

Currently Amlogic based ODROID SBC - N2/C4/HC4 - are not capable to support 8GB due to the limit of SoC.

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by cmderkeen »

I see, makes sense.

What about onboard Bluetooth or nvme?

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by cdu13a »

For NVME, you would loose the USB3 ports since the SoC used can't do USB3 and PCIE at the same time.

Unfortunately device manufactures are limited to what capabilities the SoC manufactures decide to put in their chips, and no SoC manufacture makes a reasonably priced chip with everything in it.

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by Jhonny14 »

is it possible to use an ssd on the usb3 port as the OS, starting with an sd insert?
thanks

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by odroid »

Yes, it is possible.

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by L67GS »

This is a dumb question since companies are constantly doing R&D, but is there a palm sized SBC in development to compete in the 8Gig SBC arena?

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by odroid »

Can I ask you guys main purpose of 8GB RAM on a small quad-core ARM SBC?
Probably multiple (20~30) tabs on a web-browser?
Or, building Qt or Chromium package from full source code?

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by L67GS »

odroid wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:47 pm
Can I ask you guys main purpose of 8GB RAM on a small quad-core ARM SBC?
Probably multiple (20~30) tabs on a web-browser?
Or, building Qt or Chromium package from full source code?
Just curious if Hardkernal was looking towards competing in the specs race. From my perspective a replacement for the C0 would be more useful, but I doubt that would happen.

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by odroid »

Which software stacks do you want to run on a 8GB RAM powered C0/C1?
We are looking for a real world application of ARM quad-core SBC with 8GB RAM.

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by L67GS »

I never said I wished there was an 8GB C0, just would be nice if there was a replacement for the little guy..
And I agree uses for an 8GB SBC are few and far between I'm sure but many buyers here in the U.S are driven towards products because of specs wether they can use it or not.

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by venkatbo »

Have a feeling, for day to day use, 4GB should suffice...

Some places where a 8GB variant could be useful:
  • server-side (along with removal of some of the I/O ports like HDMI etc), where one intends to keep loading it with more services/apps as time goes,
  • virtualization
  • clustering for some heavy distributed processing (w/ low cooling costs)
  • dedicated single/multi-tenant hosting on one device, as is being done with Pi's these days

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by mad_ady »

Plus, there are databases (things like logstash/elasticsearch/kibana) that could use all the ram that they could.
Or file processing tools that could make use of ram as cache.

Basically give us infinite ram and we'll find ways of abusing it...
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Re: C4+ model?

Post by L67GS »

mad_ady wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:44 am

Basically give us infinite ram and we'll find ways of abusing it...
Isn't that a Microsoft motto?

I see this topic in North North America like North American sports cars, the targeted buyer is people who don't wish to make use of its capabilities but rather the boasting rights.
Sports cars here don't even have numbers on most of the gauges because the manufacturers know the vast majority of the people who would buy it wouldn't care what the values mean.

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by fvolk »

odroid wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:47 pm
Can I ask you guys main purpose of 8GB RAM on a small quad-core ARM SBC?
When running a cluster of C4s as diskless nodes as a micro testing setup for distributed computing problems,
where base / is mounted ro via NFS and the at-runtime filesystem is a rw layer of a ramfs overlayed on top.
Consequently all filesystem changes per node are kept in ram with the actual application
...until ram is full and the node requires a restart.
Don't worry, I've not hit the limit of the C4 yet (but I started selling my C2s...)

I admit I'm not quite sure where the optimal price/power use/performance point is, C4 vs H2 vs regular PC (e.g. 8GB for H2 is ~15 EUR second hand).
I tried to get a feeling for this viewtopic.php?p=305040#p305040 and viewtopic.php?p=300408#p300408
but in summer I prefer the C4 cluster because it is "fast enough" and does not cause much extra heat in room,
whereas now in winter I prefer to keep the H2s running... ;-)

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by rooted »

As far as the C4 I don't think 8G is applicable as much as the N2+, the flagship device where people compile large projects or simply want the bragging rights.

A N2 Pro with 8G Ram, possibly an NPU, and maybe the next compatible revision of the SoC (S922X-H? or S922X-B?)

I just don't see a point in a C4 8GB other than to compete with the 8GB Pi 4.

But if you really want to compete with the Pi 4 I recommend an inexpensive add-on BT/WiFi module which doesn't take up a USB slot.

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by fvolk »

If the idea is to integrate Wifi, please also 5Ghz, the 2.4Ghz is too crowded already.

An on-board integration of RTC chip and battery connector would also enable use cases of deploying a C4+ as data collection/processing or control device "somewhere".
The GPIO connector remains free, the RTC provides time even without net, and the Wifi can provide an access point. So one could connect with phone/tablet/laptop to a C4 placed into e.g. an electricals cabinet somewhere.

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by smp »

Is there any chance that an updated C4(+) will use an S905X4 chip? I suppose S905X3 and S905X4 are pin compatible, so the board redesign shouldn't be necessary.
A Verizon Stream TV device with S905X4 is already available:

Image

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Re: C4+ model?

Post by elatllat »

odroid wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:28 pm
Which software stacks do you want to run on a 8GB RAM powered C0/C1?
We are looking for a real world application of ARM quad-core SBC with 8GB RAM.
Not C0/C1/quad-core specific but RAM is the most common limiting factor for ARM64 SOCs (and computers in general), because it's a hard limit.
A slow SBC is just slow, but a RAM starved SBC requires the power being cut or some mitigation (ulimit/cgroups/etc) and then a reminder or mitigation to never attempt the RAM hungry operation again.
It's normally bad software, but it's also normally easier to throw out the old hardware and use a system with more RAM.
I have hit this a few times;
  • postgresql maintenance (old 1U server, my fix was merged)
  • physical chemistry simulator(desktop, gave up)
  • shrinking ext4 (rpi, author lol-ed at me; I got a XU4)
  • kodi db index (rpi, stopped using kodi)
  • git operations(XU4, I use x86 to play with ARM kernels now)
  • web browser and IDE(old laptop, got a new laptop)
  • running to many build/test VMs(desktop, I'm only sometimes an idiot)
  • clamav (N2, reminded me of this post; no workaround yet)
There have likely been other times I hit the RAM wall,
and I'm sure others have in other ways,
and maybe OOMD will help,
but generally more RAM is the best way to future proof hardware.
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