Why are eMMC modules device specific?

HisDudeness · Post by **HisDudeness** » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:21 am

Hi there! I'm sure the question has already been answered, but I wasn't able to find it. Also, I didn't find a memory-specific section, please feel free to move this topic where more appropriate.

The question is in the title, and it is more of a confirmation, really. The eMMCs come with an OS pre-installed (Linux - which is Ubuntu if I'm not mistaken - or Android), so I'm guessing the difference between a C4 eMMC and an N2 one is just in the fact that the OS that they come with is the version suited for the respective device. That means I could later use an XU4 eMMC on an H2 if I flash it, and if I mean to use my OS of choice and then flash the memory to start with, I can just buy several C2 memories, am I right? Are there any hardware differences in the memories at all?

cdu13a · Post by **cdu13a** » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:44 am

If the PCB of the eMMC module is the same colour then the module is identical to another with the same colour PCB.(PCB colour not to be confused with sticker colour) As you suspect the difference is just the pre installed OS, and the configuration that is specific to that device. I have several eMMC modules that I originally got for use with a C2 or XU4 that I now use with the N2 and C4. if you have the eMMC module writer, you can flash any OS image you want on any of the eMMC irregardless of what was originally on the module.

more info about the eMMC modules can be found here https://wiki.odroid.com/accessory/emmc/emmc

mad_ady · Post by **mad_ady** » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:24 am

The black emmcs are not bootable on xu4 and don't work on the emmc2usb adapter. Red and orange are fine on all boards.

HisDudeness · Post by **HisDudeness** » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:11 am

Thank you both. Does anybody know why are the 128GB ones listed among the obsolete products? Is there any reason they won't be producing those again, if that is the case?

mad_ady · Post by **mad_ady** » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:44 am

Odroid said 128G chips were hard to obtain from manufacturers.

joerg · Post by **joerg** » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:46 am

@odroid stated in another thread:

But Samsung doesn't produce the 128GB eMMC chipset any more and we've not sold the 128GB eMMC module from early this year.

HisDudeness · Post by **HisDudeness** » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:27 pm

Bummer. Thank you all for the explanations, guess 64GB will be enough.

L67GS · Post by **L67GS** » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:57 pm

I got two 128gb eMMC modules from Ameridroid in the last couple of months.
I'm already preparing to buy a couple of C0's before they retire, I suppose I should add these to the list.

Ameridroid · Post by **Ameridroid** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:26 am

We've recently sold out of the remaining stock of 128GB eMMCs we have as well.

L67GS · Post by **L67GS** » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:27 am

Ameridroid wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:26 am
We've recently sold out of the remaining stock of 128GB eMMCs we have as well.

Poop! I wish I'd payed more attention to that while it was relevant. I'll be ordering a couple C0's with connector kits and heatsinks before they become a footnote in history as well.

BowerR64 · Post by **BowerR64** » Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:17 am

cdu13a wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:44 am
if you have the eMMC module writer, you can flash any OS image you want on any of the eMMC irregardless of what was originally on the module.

Thankyou sir! that is exactly the question i was about to ask

When i was searching for eMMC modules the prices were different depending on OS so i thought ide just get the cheaper module and then flash it (if i could) with the OS im wanting (android)

I found on the site i was searching (amazon) all of the android modules were more expensive then the linux or other systems.

I finally found one at a decent price, hope everything works

BowerR64 · Post by **BowerR64** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:42 pm

WHat is the difference between the board color?

Are some eMMc boards faster then others?

For instance i was running my XU4 on an SD card 4.4.4, i put Asphalt 8 on the SD card with 4.4.4 and a few other apps

Then i got an eMMc i installed lineageOS 15.1 it doesnt seem any faster with all the same apps

The way everyone talked about how much faster eMMc modules are i figured i would notice a huge difference between the SD card and the eMMc

Installing things seems about the same to me

Im using the wifi module 3

Im kinda new to all these SBC computers, this is only my second and i havnt done a whole lot of research on them.

I do have mine running so i did enough to build it and get it up and running with im surprised about that.

mad_ady · Post by **mad_ady** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:53 pm

It depends on the specs of the emmc/sd card. Emmcs get faster with size. The 8GB emmc is the slowest, the 128G is the fastest, because internally it can do more parallel reads/writes. Emmcs can be trimmed so that writing is faster after deleting a bunch of stuff, sd cards usually can't. Emmcs have built-in wear-leveling. SD cards usually don't.
Now, to be fair, the white, "industrial" sd cards sold by HK have great performance (50MB/s) and I think can be trimmed, so the gap between sd/emmc has narrowed in recent times.

Regarding color - it's to easily differentiate chipset vendor. The black ones lack a hidden sector that the xu4 soc needs to boot, so are not bootable.

You can also run a storage benchmark on emmc/sd and see what you get.

BowerR64 · Post by **BowerR64** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:34 pm

Whats the best program to use to bencmark the memory?

I ready they can be benchmarked but there is so many programs i have no clue which to get.

mad_ady · Post by **mad_ady** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:46 pm

Couldn't say for Android. For Linux, there's iozone.

AAM · Post by **AAM** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:16 am

We are working on a project and our system is storage hungry. We need 128GB eMMC but as mentioned in thread that Hardkernel is not developing 128gb eMMC. Can any one get the BOM and PCB file and share with me? We have no other way but to arrange it. We provided a solution with 128GB and now project approved but no 128GB eMMC.

Post by **odroid** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:48 am

@AAM,
Where could you source the 128GB eMMC chipset?

AAM · Post by **AAM** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:18 pm

We arranged it from one of our supplier in china.

Post by **odroid** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:14 pm

Is it a Samsung eMMC chipset?
Can you tell me the full part number?

BTW, we don't disclose any PCB design file either BOM.
We released the schematics in PDF format only.

L67GS · Post by **L67GS** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:04 am

@odroid, have you tried Toshiba? I'm admittedly ignorant to the subtle differences but mouser electronics here in the USA is getting 128gb Toshiba's cheap enough to sell them for $51.USD so they may be abundant and cost effective.

legogris · Post by **legogris** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:25 pm

So since "orange" is in reference to PCB color, the only color in the webshop as of now, this means that for any size there's one current hardware model as of now and the only difference is what comes preflashed, correct?

Is there any information on if these modules are SLC/eMLC/MLC/TLC and (even roughly) what durability and number of read/write cycles we can expect? Maybe there's even anyone who did durability benchmarks?
Would be good to be able to reason about durability vs USB or microSD storage options for use-cases where that is more important than speed.

Basically need to figure out if eMMC is sufficient or if I should rather go for SSD over USB.

mad_ady · Post by **mad_ady** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:57 pm

Regarding durability - my emmcs have been running 24/7 for ~5 years now and I've had no failures/performance degradation.

rooted · Post by **rooted** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:18 pm

mad_ady wrote:Regarding durability - my emmcs have been running 24/7 for ~5 years now and I've had no failures/performance degradation.

As long as you use trim there will be no performance degradation.

mad_ady · Post by **mad_ady** » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:18 pm

Yes, I'm trimming them weekly via a cron job.

AAM · Post by **AAM** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:53 am

odroid wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:14 pm
Is it a Samsung eMMC chipset?
Can you tell me the full part number?

Here is the image of chip, please advise if you see any issue or concern regarding this.
Thanks.

Post by **odroid** » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:26 am

It is not a 128GByte but a 16GByte chip.
Note that 16GByte is 128Gbit. Don't confuse bit and byte.

parmesh · Post by **parmesh** » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:24 am

We are taking a shot at a venture and our framework is capacity hungry. We need 128GB eMMC yet as referenced in the string that Hardkernel isn't creating 128gb eMMC. Would anyone be able to get the BOM and PCB record and offer with me? We have no other path yet to mastermind it. We furnished an answer with 128GB and now venture endorsed yet no 128GB eMMC.

Post by **odroid** » Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:54 am

Since Samsung doesn't supply 128GB chipset any more, there is no short term solution at this moment.
But we will receive a few samples from Micron Technology within a couple of weeks.
We have a plan to test it with various ODROID boards.
If there is no critical compatibility/stability issue, we will sell the 128GB eMMC modules again in October or November hopefully.

itcoil · Post by **itcoil** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:48 am

odroid wrote: ↑
Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:54 am
Since Samsung doesn't supply 128GB chipset any more, there is no short term solution at this moment.
But we will receive a few samples from Micron Technology within a couple of weeks.
We have a plan to test it with various ODROID boards.
If there is no critical compatibility/stability issue, we will sell the 128GB eMMC modules again in October or November hopefully.

Is there any new information regarding how your tests are going with the Micron Technology 128GB samples? Thank You.

Post by **odroid** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:10 am

It worked well with ODROID C1/C2/N2/C4/H2/XU4 series boards and read/write performance was very similar to Samsung eMMC.
And we ordered a couple of thousands 128GB chips to Micron in September. But their lead time is around 12 weeks and we will start selling it from late November probably.

BTW, there is a (minor) issue.
The Micron eMMC chipset doesn't support the legacy 4bit interface mode and you can't use it with the original eMMC-to-MicroSD adapter (reader board).
Therefore, you need this specific eMMC WRITER to flash the Micron eMMC via native eMMC 8bit interface mode.
https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/usb3-0- ... le-writer/

: micron_emmc_128g.PNG (1.06 MiB) Viewed 7129 times

L67GS · Post by **L67GS** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:36 am

Thank you to all at HK for your hard work!

itcoil · Post by **itcoil** » Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:22 pm

That is great news! Thank You!

EricWills · Post by **EricWills** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:22 am

I have long been interested in the issue of hardware differences in the memories. It wasn't easy. I'm glad I figured it out. Thanks again everyone!

Post by **odroid** » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:50 am

Micron chipset based 128GB eMMC modules are available now. I hope Ameridroid and other distributors will sell it soon.
https://www.hardkernel.com/product-cate ... price-desc

itcoil · Post by **itcoil** » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:59 pm

Do these new 128GB eMMC modules have as fast of a Read speed as the previous 128 GB eMMC Hardkernel was offering?

I was also wondering if Hardkernel will be making more of these modules after this batch runs out, or will this be the final offering? Knowing this can help with our product design, which includes the C2 as the main component. Thanks!

Post by **odroid** » Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:53 pm

We've run a simple benchmark(iozone3) and the Micron 128GB eMMC looks slightly (<5%) faster than Samsung.
https://wiki.odroid.com/accessory/emmc/ ... d-n2n2plus

We will keep producing the 128GB eMMC modules if Micron doesn't discontinue it.
I think it will be available for a few more years at least.

rooted · Post by **rooted** » Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:40 pm

odroid wrote:Micron chipset based 128GB eMMC modules are available now. I hope Ameridroid and other distributors will sell it soon.
https://www.hardkernel.com/product-cate ... price-desc

Are they backwards compatible with all boards?

*edit*
I see on the sale page it is

L67GS · Post by **L67GS** » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:21 am

I want to thamk Hardkernal for offering the proprietary programming device so inexpensively rather than inflating the price of a necessary item like other companies might.
Also, is the new device capable of flashing the Samsung based modules as well?

Ameridroid · Post by **Ameridroid** » Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:41 am

We plan to sell these as soon as they arrive at our warehouse.

Post by **odroid** » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:24 am

L67GS wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:21 am
Also, is the new device capable of flashing the Samsung based modules as well?

This flashing(writing) USB adapter has been working with Samsung eMMC chipset since it launched a few years ago.
https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/usb3-0- ... le-writer/