Fan continuosly starting and stopping

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dp_alvarez
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Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by dp_alvarez » Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:35 pm

I'm trying to setup my H2 so the fan only runs when necessary, as most of the time the system will be idle.
The problem is that the hysteresis of the built-in fan control algorithm is too low, and this causes the fan to continuously start and stop.
Running the fan even on the slowest speed quickly brings the temperature down and it stops, with the fan stopped after less than a minute the temperature rises and the fan starts, rinse and repeat.
If I set the "Low Speed Temperature" lower, the fan will start even at idle, and it will also continuously start and stop.

One solution would be to add a "Hysteresis" setting in the bios, so the fan starts at "Low Speed Temperature" but only stops when temperature reaches "Low Speed Temperature"-Hysteresis.
The best solution would be if we could control the fan directly under linux (so, for example, it starts not only if the cpu is hot but if the hdd is hot also).

Could any of those options be added in a BIOS update? They are quite important to run the system with the fan on only when needed

Thanks!

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by odroid » Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:59 am

We will check a feasibility first.

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by joshua.yang » Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:39 am

HI, @dp_alvarez.

We've made a new patched BIOS. This contains the "Temperature Hysteresis" option to adjust its system fan behavior.
But we're not able to test that feature because we can't get the exact board temperature that the system fan watches over. We can try to control the board temperature by heating up the CPU but it is so ambiguous to confirm that works or not. :?
Could you confirm that for us?

Maybe someone would ask, why we cannot measure that temperature? Why the board temperature, not the CPU temperature?
This because the system fan control does work by the EMC2103 chipset. And that chipset watches the integrated sensor to measure the current temperature, not using the CPU temperature. The bad thing is that we are not able to access the integrated sensor with the OS layer. That's why we are hoping you to test that. Please understand. :)

So we're going to share the new BIOS to you and hope that you can check this by your daily use as you used to so far. :)
Here's the BIOS file: https://dn.odroid.com/ODROID-H2/bios/tr ... eresis.zip

After you install the BIOS, you can find the new option in "Advanced -> Thermal".
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To check that you installed well or not, see the BIOS information on the first screen.
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We also heard the explanation of how that option works.
"When the measured temperature drops to a point below a lower threshold minus the hysteresis value, the fan output will be set to the corresponding lower set point.
I think that means that, if we set the threshold to 80, and the hysteresis to 3, the system fan turns on at the 80 degrees and the fan keeps RPM to the 77 degrees.

This is the trial version, which means the "Temperature Hysteresis" function may not work as we expected.
That also means that although this working flawlessly the BIOS version might be changed.

updated) I changed that uploaded BIOS file to the 04/24/2020 built version. There're only simple changes; default hysteresis is 0 and can select one between range 0 to 5. That 0 to disable.
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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by rooted » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:05 pm

Wow I can't believe how quickly you implemented this functionality.

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by dp_alvarez » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:51 am

That was really fast indeed, great work by the Odroid team!

I just flashed the new BIOS without problems and I'm testing it now, will take a couple of days to collect the data.
Is there a reason hysteresis was limited to 5C? While it is much better than before, based on my testing I would set the fan to start at 50C and an hysteresis of around 15C.
This would ensure the fan would not start if the system was idle, and would make sure the fan would only stop if there is no more load on the system.

I attached some graphs of temperatures vs fan speeds below so you can see my testing:
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rooted (Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:22 am) • joshua.yang (Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:30 am)

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by odroid » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:56 am

@dp_alvarez,
Thank you for sharing your test results.
We will try to increase the Hysteresis range.

BTW, how did you read or measure temp_board1, temp_board2 and temp_board3 values?

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by dp_alvarez » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:43 am

I installed lm-sensors and ran 'modprobe emc2103', as that is the chip detected by 'sensors-detect'.
Running 'sensors' then shows those three temperatures, along with fan RPM.
I tried controlling the fan by writing to /sys/class/hwmon/hwmonX but it does not work, unfortunately.

I'm guessing there are three temperature sensors on the board? Doesn't really make much difference since their temperatures are always so close together however.
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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by odroid » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:28 am

We didn't know that the existence of emc2103 device driver. :o
Thank you for the great information.

Right. There are three temp sensors near the CPU (under the heat sink) and their temperature values should be very close.

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by joshua.yang » Mon Apr 27, 2020 4:21 pm

dp_alvarez wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:51 am
That was really fast indeed, great work by the Odroid team!

I just flashed the new BIOS without problems and I'm testing it now, will take a couple of days to collect the data.
Is there a reason hysteresis was limited to 5C? While it is much better than before, based on my testing I would set the fan to start at 50C and an hysteresis of around 15C.
This would ensure the fan would not start if the system was idle, and would make sure the fan would only stop if there is no more load on the system.

I attached some graphs of temperatures vs fan speeds below so you can see my testing:
Hi.

Just shocked at a module for EMC2103. :shock:

According to your informative feedback, we've made an updated BIOS and shared it on our DN server.
Please check this: https://dn.odroid.com/ODROID-H2/bios/tr ... _final.zip

You can adjust hysteresis between 0 to 15 with this BIOS.
The built date of this BIOS is "04/27/2020 14:06:42".

I have tested with reading board temperatures, but it'll also be great if you confirm this on your side if there's spare time. :)
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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by dp_alvarez » Fri May 01, 2020 8:00 am

Thanks for the update! It was certainly needed, since the behavior improved but the fan still was starting and stopping, as you can see in the attachment.
I will be testing it in the coming days and will post an update.
Glad I could give some useful information, and again great work by the odroid team!

Image

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by Tenaja » Fri May 01, 2020 10:55 am

If this doesn't work, perhaps a time based hysteresis (i.e. minimum on-time setting) would be an alternate solution. So instead of turning off after dropping to x degrees, it turns off x minutes after dropping into no-fan-needed temperatures.

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by rooted » Fri May 01, 2020 4:29 pm

That's what hysteresis does.

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by Tenaja » Fri May 01, 2020 5:51 pm

I know what it is, but you can have it temperature based as above, or time based. If you stop using the processor, it can drop temperature rapidly and still cycle faster than desired.

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by dp_alvarez » Fri May 08, 2020 3:22 am

I've been testing the updated BIOS for the last couple of days and seems to be working great!
I set the fan to start at 48c and hysteresis of 15c, with cpu turbo disabled (still fast enough for my use and I rather lower the energy usage).
If I have a small peak of CPU load the fan can still start and stop quickly, so a time-based hysteresis would be useful (as Tenaja suggested), but this is not a problem for my use case.
Never expected this to be implemented so quickly, very happy with the results!

Follows some graphs showing how the system is behaving:
Image
Image

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by joshua.yang » Fri May 08, 2020 10:13 am

dp_alvarez wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 3:22 am
I've been testing the updated BIOS for the last couple of days and seems to be working great!
I set the fan to start at 48c and hysteresis of 15c, with cpu turbo disabled (still fast enough for my use and I rather lower the energy usage).
If I have a small peak of CPU load the fan can still start and stop quickly, so a time-based hysteresis would be useful (as Tenaja suggested), but this is not a problem for my use case.
Never expected this to be implemented so quickly, very happy with the results!

Follows some graphs showing how the system is behaving:
Thanks for confirming. :)
Please let us know if you experience any other issues.

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by roots » Tue May 12, 2020 3:23 pm

When do you plan to make a new bios release? Thanks

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by odroid » Tue May 12, 2020 5:17 pm

roots wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 3:23 pm
When do you plan to make a new bios release? Thanks
Did you meet any problem with the latest bios_v1.10_fan_hysteresis_final BIOS?

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by roots » Tue May 12, 2020 5:18 pm

no, I mean, when v1.10 will be released?

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Re: Fan continuosly starting and stopping

Post by odroid » Tue May 12, 2020 6:05 pm

It was the latest version.
We will update the BIOS WiKi page in this week.

Edit: Done. https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-h2/hardw ... os_release
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