J4105 vs N4100

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by odroid » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:43 am

@venkatbo,
Is there any specific reason you don't like the Realtek NIC?
Some users already reported there is no big difference against the Intel one.
viewtopic.php?f=170&t=35845
The bad reputation seems to be caused by some old buggy drivers in Kernel 3.x.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by venkatbo » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:39 pm

@odroid, iirc someone reported in the forum, some instability after a few days or some such... while the newer drivers may be more stable, rightfully or not, perceptions may hamper sales... have not seen any issues in my light use, though.

Just a thought, to win more users, if cost/technical aspects are non-issues...

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by powerful owl » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:00 pm

crashoverride wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:39 am
powerful owl wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:57 am
a NUC8i3
BOXNUC8i3BEH1 = $314

Both are only 2 core versus the 4 real cores in H2. Pricing comes from newegg and is applicable to the USA. Not intended to be a debate about who can build the cheapest system, rather to show that a J5005 based H2 is still competitive in my region.
Hm, NUCs cost more in the USA... interesting. Also you have a distributor (with reasonable pricing) so don't need to pay $40 shipping for ODroid. Certainly the value equation will vary depending on where you are.
domih wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:35 am
The Gigabyte, for the price, is a pretty good mini-desktop (email, browsing, Office, HTPC). But the H2 can fill that role PLUS let you expand on capabilities you find in embedded systems to build something you CANNOT get with the main stream ITX boards.
The H2 is a great little board. It's just a question (at least for some of us and depending on use case ;) ) of whether an extra $40 is worth only a small CPU improvement.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by domih » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:58 pm

powerful owl wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:00 pm
crashoverride wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:39 am
powerful owl wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:57 am
a NUC8i3
BOXNUC8i3BEH1 = $314

Both are only 2 core versus the 4 real cores in H2. Pricing comes from newegg and is applicable to the USA. Not intended to be a debate about who can build the cheapest system, rather to show that a J5005 based H2 is still competitive in my region.
Hm, NUCs cost more in the USA... interesting. Also you have a distributor (with reasonable pricing) so don't need to pay $40 shipping for ODroid. Certainly the value equation will vary depending on where you are.
domih wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:35 am
The Gigabyte, for the price, is a pretty good mini-desktop (email, browsing, Office, HTPC). But the H2 can fill that role PLUS let you expand on capabilities you find in embedded systems to build something you CANNOT get with the main stream ITX boards.
The H2 is a great little board. It's just a question (at least for some of us and depending on use case ;) ) of whether an extra $40 is worth only a small CPU improvement.
I concur. It depends on the use case. Anyway, Hard Kernel is probably going to go with the N41000 boosted by the BIOS, which makes sense because they already integrated it. Regarding the shipping costs, I'm privileged, Ameridroid is less than 200 hundred miles from my place. Shipping costs are minimal and if in stock I get the goods within 2 or 3 days.
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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by 127.0.0.1 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:32 pm

odroid wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:43 am
@venkatbo,
Is there any specific reason you don't like the Realtek NIC?
For community that would like to use the odroid to run pfsense or esxi, intel nic are preferred and does not require custom images or patching.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by rmkimathi » Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:20 pm

odroid wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:33 pm
Our H2 Rev-B second batch is almost gone. I think it will be sold out again within a few weeks.

So we tried to secure more J4105 CPUs from Intel few weeks ago.
Unfortunately, they still have the serious Wafer shortage problem and they told us there is no more J4105 in this year.
In that case, we have to wait another several months again. :(

Their counter proposal is the N4100. They told us the N4100 supplying chain is much more stable and slightly cheaper.
Please look into this comparison table.
https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_c ... _j4105-841
Multi-core performance seems to be identical since the maximum clock is locked at 2.4Ghz when four CPUs are running in parallel.
The GPU performance is slightly(6~7%) lower but others are exactly same.

Therefore, the next H2 Rev-C will have the N4100 instead of the J4105 if we can't source J4105 anymore.
The price will be dropped to $105 from $111 probably.

Any comments are appreciated.
Please go with the J5005. Next year intel may release a better chip which we can upgrade to. Then there's competition from AMD (UDOO BOLT)

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by rooted » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:21 am


127.0.0.1 wrote:
odroid wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:43 am
@venkatbo,
Is there any specific reason you don't like the Realtek NIC?
For community that would like to use the odroid to run pfsense or esxi, intel nic are preferred and does not require custom images or patching.
My understanding is pfsense is working without any modifications, this whole realtek thing has been sorted for some time.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by n2qcn » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:52 am

From http://www.fanlesstech.com/2019/08/excl ... fresh.html

Skyhawk Lake will have to wait. Six new Gemini Lake SoCs are coming later this year, including the desktop Pentium J5040, Celeron J4125 / J4025, and mobile Pentium N5030, Celeron N4120 / N4020.

The new processors are still based on the 14nm Goldmont Plus architecture and feature the same Intel UHD graphics and cache, but offer substantially higher frequencies in some cases.

The top-of-the-line Pentium J5040 is clocked at 2.0GHz up to 3.2GHz (1.5GHz up to 2.80 GHz for the J5005). Gemini Lake Refresh motherboards and mini PCs will be on shelves early 2020.
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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by odroid » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:45 pm

We can source the J4105 chips from other distributors.
So we will keep using the J4105 instead of the N4100.

Sorry for making a noise. But I've learned a lot of things from users.
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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by rooted » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:08 am

odroid wrote:We can source the J4105 chips from other distributors.
So we will keep using the J4105 instead of the N4100.

Sorry for making a noise. But I've learned a lot of things from users.
That's good news.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by tmihai20 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:47 pm

If I were in your (HardKernel's) shoes I would probably go for N4100 instead of the slightly better J5005. If J5005 is just as hard to source as J4105, then I would definitely go for N4100 SoC, I would not change anything else in it, since any major change like the Ethernet would require months of waiting for certification. I am using N4100 series SoC at work and it is more than kicking ass with its performance. I actually wanted one to use as a NAS.
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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by DrM » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:28 am

If I'm not mistaken, the J5005 supports new instructions like BMI2, AVX2.
That would be very interesting, at least for me. The extra $40 would be ok.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by zang74 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:59 am

I'm late to this game, but keep the price the same and add a pulse-eight. It'd be an amazing media & game machine if it had CEC capabilities.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by powerful owl » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:09 pm

What's a pulse-eight?

I think they should split it into two versions - one with 4 x Intel NICs and one with 4 x SATA ports (including on-board power delivery). Keep the NVMe in both cases.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by Megamind » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:05 pm

Gemini Lake Refresh J4125 should be available end 2019/early 2020. Odroid please confirm. Thanks.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by powerful owl » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:17 am

domih wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:00 am
crashoverride wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 9:39 am
fvolk wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:14 pm
the A300
Deskmini A300 + Athlon 200GE = $150 + $63 = $213
powerful owl wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:57 am
a NUC8i3
BOXNUC8i3BEH1 = $314

Both are only 2 core versus the 4 real cores in H2. Pricing comes from newegg and is applicable to the USA. Not intended to be a debate about who can build the cheapest system, rather to show that a J5005 based H2 is still competitive in my region.
Plus 28W instead of 10W TDP. Also all the Intel U and Y are for mobile (in theory), they do not behave like their desktop cousins.
Hi again :) Is there some difference between "mobile" and "desktop" processors that isn't apparent from e.g. benchmarks and a power meter? Why does it matter that the "U" processor is "mobile"?

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by domih » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:38 am

powerful owl wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:17 am
Hi again :) Is there some difference between "mobile" and "desktop" processors that isn't apparent from e.g. benchmarks and a power meter?
My understanding reading product briefs from Intel, AMD and other sources (i.e. https://en.wikichip.org or reviews from other sites) is:

1. In order to get the TDP as low as possible, they lower the base frequency.
2. They may disable features that are energy monger.
3. Without explicitly telling the CPU not to do so, the CPU will go to low energy modes (frequency, cores) to reduce power consumption.

Now, all these things will affect the benchmarks and the power meter which is the purpose of "being a mobile CPU".
powerful owl wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:17 am
Why does it matter that the "U" processor is "mobile"?
I don't understand the question.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by powerful owl » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:32 pm

Hi, thanks. I'm just trying to understand your comment about U processors being "mobile". Within the same family the N4100 and J4105 are mobile/desktop, but when you go up to say the i3 line the "mobile" i3 is faster (according to benchmarks) than the "desktop" Celeron, so I don't understand why "mobile" is a disadvantage.

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by meveric » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:00 am

If you want to compare, you should compare i3 Desktop with i3 Mobile.
Not i3 Mobile and Celeron Desktop.
Celeron is a completely different design, there is no surprise that it's slower even than a mobile iX CPU.
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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by manisharma11211 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:15 am

domih wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:55 am
odroid wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:36 am
Normally, we have to spend more than five months to make a new PCB design if we consider CE/FCC/KC/RoHS certification.
So we have no plan to make a different x86 hardware at this moment.
We are just considering changing the CPU only since all the Gemini Lake SoCs are pin-to-pin compatible.

Possible options:
- Wait several months (until we can buy J4105 again).
- Sell H2-A with N4100 at $105 two months later.
- Sell H2-B with J5005 at $149 two months later.
Personally I'm fine with the J5005 board at $149 given that anyway I'll add 32Gb of memory, disks, an NVMe or card(s), other accessories, case. At the end the extra $38 get lost in the overall cost.

But then again you want to make sure Intel is not going to do with PS J5005 what it is doing with C J4105. It looks like Intel is much more concerned about the war on the middle and high desktop as well as server with AMD seriously ruffling their feathers with the 3000 series and the upcoming Rome.

Meanwhile Intel is doing the U and Y core series so that Dell, HP and so on can sell their crappy mini-desktops with not so good performances. Even the Dell, ASUS and Gigabyte based on the J4105 are crap compared to the Odroid H2. The board maker for the J4105-based Dell and Gigabyte minis is the same no name board maker. At least the Gigabyte lets you run 32GB of memory, but the NVMe is x2 only. On Dell, it's even worse: 8MB of memory soldered to the board and that's it!
Thanks for this information. It useful

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Re: J4105 vs N4100

Unread post by canoodle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:49 am

let's GO RISCV! :)
riscvlogo.png
riscvlogo.png (24.37 KiB) Viewed 356 times
it's one of the very few CPUs not affected by meltdown and spectre! (except Ultra SPARC)

https://www.crowdsupply.com/sifive/hifive1-rev-b

https://dwaves.org/2018/05/09/spectre-a ... e-of-risc/

it is possible to write programs for RISCV (untested have no board yet) in RUST and arm (tested hello world)

https://dwaves.org/2019/08/17/rust-most ... nd-safety/

https://ftp.fau.de/fosdem/2019/AW1.126/riscvfedora.webm

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