XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

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hominoid
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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by hominoid »

mad_ady wrote:Hmm, strange, this is the fan I ordered and used on my xu4: Noctua NF-A4x20 5V PWM and came with a 2 pin adapter cable that I connected to the board. It does have some 3 pin cables too in the box, but I thought the third in is for rpm reading.
@hominid: is the A4x10 fan you used non-pwm, but works with pwm?
Edit: Here is the post that lead me to believe non-pwm fans don't work: viewtopic.php?f=97&t=29106
I have been using the NF-A4x10 5v Non-PMW fan for the XU4 Split Airflow case. I don't believe Noctua had a 40mm x 10mm or 20mm PWM Fan when I bought mine. It's like @DarkBahamut posted, either should work for the XU4 because of the HK implementation. FYI, If you look at the Noctua fan spec's all the PWM fans have 4-pins, Non-PWM fans can be either 2-pin or 3-pin like you pointed out. The fan that comes with the HK OEM active cooler is Non-PWM. I don't have the link anymore but here is the PWM Spec 1.3 for anyone interested.
4_Wire_PWM_Spec.pdf
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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by CoBrA2168 »

hominoid wrote:
mad_ady wrote:Hmm, strange, this is the fan I ordered and used on my xu4: Noctua NF-A4x20 5V PWM and came with a 2 pin adapter cable that I connected to the board. It does have some 3 pin cables too in the box, but I thought the third in is for rpm reading.
@hominid: is the A4x10 fan you used non-pwm, but works with pwm?
Edit: Here is the post that lead me to believe non-pwm fans don't work: viewtopic.php?f=97&t=29106
I have been using the NF-A4x10 5v Non-PMW fan for the XU4 Split Airflow case. I don't believe Noctua had a 40mm x 10mm or 20mm PWM Fan when I bought mine. It's like @DarkBahamut posted, either should work for the XU4 because of the HK implementation. FYI, If you look at the Noctua fan spec's all the PWM fans have 4-pins, Non-PWM fans can be either 2-pin or 3-pin like you pointed out. The fan that comes with the HK OEM active cooler is Non-PWM. I don't have the link anymore but here is the PWM Spec 1.3 for anyone interested.
4_Wire_PWM_Spec.pdf
DarkBahamut wrote:PWM or non-PWM fans should work on either PWM or non-PWM devices (full compatibility either way) since the all the fans only require 2 pins to actually run (VCC + GND). The only difference between the fans is that the PWM fans have PWM logic on board so they accept a PWM timing signal (the 4th pin) that tells the fan how much to pulse it's motor. The non-PWM version don't accept this so it just takes a VCC and GND.

The XU4 instead has this PWM logic on board and directly pulses the VCC output pin (rather than telling the fan to pulse it's own motor) which results the fan in getting less power and thus spins at a lower speed. The fan is effectively blind to the PWM process which is how you get PWM control on a non-PWM fan :)

My advice would be to get whichever is cheapest since both will work exactly the same when it comes to the odroids.
Thanks guys for posting an explanation that makes sense (at least to me!). I went ahead and ordered the Noctua A4x10 5V model, which is only a "non-PWM" version. I also bought some molex adapters/cables from eBay that should be compatible (by using the custom wire creator that comes with the fan).

My XU4 came in the mail yesterday, so I almost have everything to put it together and do a final test. I will report back if I run into any issues.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by CoBrA2168 »

mad_ady wrote:Ok, keep us posted!
I finally got all of the hardware today, including the molex cable that I purchased from eBay linked in a previous post. The Noctua fan comes with the "OmniJoin" adapter to allow you to connect the cables without soldering. Turns out, it works perfectly! And the cable that I purchased was also the correct molex adapter - it fit right into the board with no issues.

The latest kernel also seems to handle the automatic fan quite nicely - it spins up when it needs to, and turns off when it is idling. Overall I'm very happy with this setup.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by mad_ady »

Thanks for confirming and enjoy!

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by tylerhoot »

Well I am trying to decide between a heat sink and a fan combo instead of the stock active cooler since i am hitting high temperatures in the 75C Range at max load i know it goes higher but that's what i have seen but i was looking at the heat sinks that ameridroid has and i don't know of any other good ones except the https://ameridroid.com/products/heat-si ... 8500450338 and the blue stock one https://ameridroid.com/products/heat-si ... 7867372578 but is there any big difference between these two? or is there a better option?

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by hominoid »

The answer to your question is subjective. There has been a lot written regarding this topic and the answer depends on how your using your system. If your using it for general computing the OEM blue heatsink will work but, the gold one has more heft so it will do better under heavy longer sustained loads. The blue OEM wasn't around when I did testing but the results will help quantify performance of the gold heatsink. I have both and like I said, the gold works better for some uses. IMO, for the XU4 you can't have enough cooling.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by tylerhoot »

would the gold one still fit in the stock case? have you found any better prices on the heat sink then ameridroid? (edit) Never mind i found another source from aliexpress and i have it on order ill report back on how it does.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by roots »

c0rn3l wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:16 am
Hello

I want to present some temperature tests on my Odroid XU4Q (with default blue heat sink) with no fan or along with Noctua Fans: NF-A4x20 5V , NF-A4x10 5V
http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products ... 3452239825 (XU4Q)
http://noctua.at/en/nf-a4x20-5v/specification
http://noctua.at/en/nf-a4x10-5v/specification

Test time: 3min
CPU Load: 100% (stress --cpu 8 --timeout 300s)
CPU Idle: 3-10% (only basic stuffs running)
Scenarios presented:
no_fan - means test is made with no fan, only blue heat sink
nf_a4x10 - means test is made with Noctua fan NF-A4x10 5V
nf_a4x20 - means test is made with Noctua fan NF-A4x20 5V
blow - fan is sitting horizontally on the top of the blue heat sink and is blowing air in the heat sink
suck - fan is sitting horizontally on the top of the blue heat sink and is sucking air from the heat sink
blow_from_side - fan is placed vertically ~1cm away from the heat sink (~3mm away from the Odroid board border) and it is blowing air along the heat sink spaces. Odroid board is ~1cm above the bottom of the fan (so some air may get under the board too). A "roof" is placed over the fan/board ~1cm above heat sink (so blowing air is better directed along the heat sink).

PS: the bellow script I created to register the temperature over given time with/without CPU stress. (it may be not the best, but does the job)

Code: Select all

DEFAULT_TIMEOUT=300
DEFAULT_CORE_NUMBER=8
TIME_STEP=2

cpu_tmp_record() {
        local timeout_used=$3
        if [[ $1 != 'true' && $1 != 'false' ]]
        then
                echo "[ERROR] Please set boolean parameter for stress cpu."
        elif [[ -z $2 ]]
        then
                echo "[ERROR] Please insert output file name."
        elif [[ -f $HOME/$2 ]]
        then
                echo "[ERROR] File already exist. Please set other name."
        else
                if [[ -z $timeout_used ]]
                then
                        timeout_used=$DEFAULT_TIMEOUT
                fi
                echo "[INFO] Launched stress test on $DEFAULT_CORE_NUMBER cores for $timeout_used seconds. Output is saved to $2 ."
                $1 && stress --cpu $DEFAULT_CORE_NUMBER --timeout ${timeout_used}s & $( while [[ $timeout_used -gt 0 ]];do cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp  /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone1/temp /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone2/temp /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone3/temp /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone4/temp | awk '{sum += $0} END {print sum/5000}' >> $HOME/$2;((timeout_used=timeout_used-2));sleep $TIME_STEP;done ) & wait
        fi
}
cpu_tmp_record() <arg1> <arg2> <arg3>
arg1 - allowed values: true/false (mandatory) - if true, then it will stress CPU with stress command
arg2 - name/location of the output file (mandatory)
arg3 - number of seconds to run the test (optional, default = 300 seconds)
@c0rn3l: is the NF-A4x10 5V fan a PWM or non-PWM ? Thanks

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by cleverest@gmail.com »

mad_ady wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 pm
I don't think that a taller/bigger heatsink will be able to keep the XU4 running at full speed without throttling without some active cooling. Your best bet for a quiet cooler is either a Noctua fan running @5V, or a bigger 12V fan running at 5V.
Hi! Which particular Noctua fan running at 5v works well? I see so many that they sell...it's confusing.

Is this an ideal one? https://ameridroid.com/products/fan-noc ... ltra-quiet

Does that come with everything I need to install and remove the heatsink from the XU4Q?...what do I need to buy in addition? Arctic Silver 5 AS5 I suspect is needed? Any power connection adapters required that you can link? Sorry for asking for hand-holding on stuff to get, I just want to make sure I do it right and I'm sure it will help a lot of people too. Thank you.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by roots »

It's the: NF-A4x10 5V https://noctua.at/en/nf-a4x10-5v
It does not come with the Molex 51021-0200. (Fan connector for odroid xu4). You have to order it separately or reuse the connector from the fan you have on the Odroid. (I hope you have one).
If you reuse the connector you will need a solder iron and some electrically insulated tape (or I would recommend "Heat-shrinkable sleeve" ) this is the elegant way and the other way is use the OmniJoin which come with the Noctua fan (actually no tools are needed). https://noctua.at/en/omnijoin_adaptor_set
Yes, some thermal compound paste it's mandatory from my point of view. I personally use the Arctic MX-4. I would recommend to use a non-conductive paste (I hope the reason it's clear). If it's the first time when you use it, check some youtube "tutorials".

See also my last post from: viewtopic.php?p=248730#p248730

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by mad_ady »

If you have the XU4Q you don't need to remove the heatsink.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by hominoid »

roots wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:49 pm
It's the: NF-A4x10 5V https://noctua.at/en/nf-a4x10-5v
It does not come with the Molex 51021-0200. (Fan connector for odroid xu4). You have to order it separately or reuse the connector from the fan you have on the Odroid...
You can also use the connector on a XU4 RTC battery, it's the same as the fan connector and may be easier for you to just splice to the Noctua wires. Then you still have a functioning fan to re-purpose. If your ordering from Ameridroid they usually have them in stock.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by cleverest@gmail.com »

Thanks so much for the replies, everyone. VERY HELPFUL. If I go the RTC battery route and SPLICE them together, does that mean solder them or I can twist tie tightly with electric tape just as effectively? What did you do in your case?

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by mad_ady »

The wires are pretty thin. Soldering is better because it guarantees electrical contact. If you only twist them time and vibration may break the connection and the fan will be permanently off. You can try it, but keep an eye on it.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by cleverest@gmail.com »

Good point, I'll just solder them. I guess the battery route is the easiest and best way to connect it. Thanks again.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by anko »

ok, hi everyone i just have a quick confirmation question for this thread. i got an xu4 that i'm fairly happy with but i've been bothered by the this topic's fan/pulsing, heat/management issue. i ordered odroid's "tall blue heatsink" and the noctua 5v fan recommended here and intend to swap them out for the xu4's standard heatsink and fan when i get them...

i'd just like to confirm that what i've ordered will be suitable for the job (seemed so from all the above). i guess i should have confirmed this _before_ i ordered the parts of course, lol. :oops:

having struck this issue makes me wish i had've researched even more, and ordered an xu4-Q, then i would've just been able to whack the noctua fan on top of that, right?

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by anko »

...oh, and does anyone have a link to a good source for the Molex 51021-0200 ?? i can't seem to find one locally and i'd like to avoid cutting the connector off the original fan if possible. hk seem to only sell it with an rtc battery already attached.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by mad_ady »

and ordered an xu4-Q, then i would've just been able to whack the noctua fan on top of that, right?
Right.

You can reuse the original connector and solder the wires, they're tricky to find.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by roots »

anko wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:52 pm
...oh, and does anyone have a link to a good source for the Molex 51021-0200 ?? i can't seem to find one locally and i'd like to avoid cutting the connector off the original fan if possible. hk seem to only sell it with an rtc battery already attached.
Where are you from?
https://www.tme.eu/
https://www.farnell.com/

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by anko »

@roots australia.

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by anko »

@mad_ady : guess i'll have to do that then. the noctua fan comes with a pair of "no solder" splicers i can use though right?

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by roots »

Noctua Fan comes with OmniJoint: https://noctua.at/media/wysiwyg/images/ ... or_set.jpg
Yes you can use them.

You can also have a look at my last comment from: viewtopic.php?f=97&t=32624&p=248730&hil ... an#p248709
(were I summarized my experience with the fan)

Molex Australia:

Arrow Electronics
Chris.doran@arrowasia.com

Avnet Electronics
SirWee.Ong@avnet.com

Braemac Pty Ltd
m.pearson@braemac.com.au

Control Synergy
Robin@controlsynergy.com.au

Digi-Key Electronics
international.internet@digikey.com

Heilind Asia Pacific Singapore Office
mailto:mtew@heilind.com

Mouser Electronics
Australia@mouser.com

RS Components Pty LTD
ozorder@rs-components.com

element14 Australia Electronic Components
au-sales@element14.com

I would recommend element14, Mouser or Digi-Key.
These users thanked the author roots for the post:
anko (Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:27 am)

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Re: XU4 heatsink without cooler (or low noise)

Post by anko »

roots wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:14 pm
Noctua Fan comes with OmniJoint: https://noctua.at/media/wysiwyg/images/ ... or_set.jpg
Yes you can use them.
thanks for the confirmation. seems the simplest solution.
You can also have a look at my last comment from: viewtopic.php?f=97&t=32624&p=248730&hil ... an#p248709
(were I summarized my experience with the fan)
yeah, i've always used noctua fans in all my pc builds because they're so good, pleased to find they make one suitable for this task too.

i ordered some connectors from element14. ;)

thanks for all your input!

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