Stack-able micro computers

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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby trohn_javolta » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:00 pm

odroid wrote:
golgoth wrote:Hello Odroid,
have the HC2 production been launched as planned?


Nope. the schedule is pushed to January due to some raw material lead time issues.
Sorry about that.


Is there any newsletter I could sign up to that informs me once the HC2 is avaiable? That would be awesome.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby thatfluxnerd » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:54 am

odroid wrote:
golgoth wrote:Hello Odroid,
have the HC2 production been launched as planned?


Nope. the schedule is pushed to January due to some raw material lead time issues.
Sorry about that.


Is there an estimated price for the HC2? Also, will a 12V 2A power brick suffice?
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby PigLover » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:39 am

Can you supply the stacking parts from the MC-1 (plastic strips, screws and fan) separately? Or at least provide specs so to buy them directly? Would be nice to stack 4 HC-1s the same way. The MC-1 runs cool even with load, but a moderate lode on the HC-1 quickly gets to temps in the high 80s - it needs a fan.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby odroid » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:43 pm

We have no plan to sell the stacking parts separately. sorry about that.

Refer the specification of the fan and screws.
* 92x92x25mm 5Volt/2000RPM low noise cooling fan with a USB power cable.
* M3 x 8mm self-tapping screws
The plastic strips were made of 2mm thick acrylic material.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Butterfly » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:16 pm

Are there any informations about the HC2 or HC1+? Will it be for one or two disks (raid)?
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby mad_ady » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:27 pm

I think both will be for one disk. I expect HC2 to be launched by the end of january, but I don't know HK's production schedule. If you need two disks, then cloudshell 2 is for you
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Butterfly » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:48 pm

Thank you mad_ady. The Cloudshell 2 is great but is is also very big, I do not need a display. I like the idea of the HC1, it is small, silent and needs not too much power. I am thinking of about two HC1 with a software raid 1 over network, or using rsync to backup all files every week.

Wha I want is an secure encrypted and energy efficient NAS to save pictues, videos, make home dir backups, .... Raid 1 by Hardware would good for that. At the moment I am waiting for the release of HC1+ or HC2. I want to place it inside a 19" Rack, the cloudshell is to high for that it would use too much space inside the rack.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby elatllat » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:20 pm

Butterfly wrote:...secure encrypted and energy efficient NAS to save pictues, videos, make home dir backups, .... Raid 1 by Hardware would good for that. At the moment I am waiting for the release of HC1+ or HC2. I want to place it inside a 19" Rack, the cloudshell is to high for that it would use too much space inside the rack.

RAID is not a backup, you should rsync off site for a backup.
A XU4 and a few usb drives will fit.
Be aware of the crypo speed.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Butterfly » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:42 am

I know that RAID 1 is not a backup. My backup is an external USB 3.0 drive. Raid 1 is good to have also all new data on a second disk, that a hardware problem of one disk will not destroy the newest data. The USB Backup disk is normally not in the same building with the NAS system.

I want to try to make a NAS with LUKS encryption. The 20MB/s would be enough for the beginning. I hope that there are kernel modules in the future available that support multi threading for the LUKS encryption.

One idea of me is to use two HC1. Two options:
- RAID 1 over network
- One is master the second one is a backup device, that makes an rsync every day

One other idea is to use one HC1, the backup disk is attached via the USB port. Sadly it is only USB 2.0 and there is no free USB port left than.

So I am waiting for the HC1+ / HC2 to see what is different. A 3.5" disk would be good to build a NAS with more than 5TB. Otherwise 2.5" disk with the HC1 are very energy efficient. :)
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby mad_ady » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:27 am

For a distributed filesystem with redundancy read the glusterfs articles in the past two odroid magazine issues.

The HC2 is bigger/bulky-er than the HC1 because its metal frame goes around the 3.5" disk. But it can dissipate more heat.
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HPCC Systems on HC-1 (was: Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby brianb644 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:37 pm

Just a quick note to say that I stumbled across the HC-1 last month and was really excited about its potential to be used as workers in an HPCC Systems big data processing cluster. (https://hpccsystems.com/). The Gigabit LAN, local SSD, low-power, faster ARMs, with more memory than similar lowest price units might make it viable for this type or application.

I ordered a couple HC1 units and paired each of them with a 128GB SSD dirve. With a few hurdles, I was able to compile the HPCC Systems software and have a running system with 16 slaves. A standard test I run is to analyse web log data to calculate which sequences of 3 pages (aka trios) are the most commonly visited. Though it took a while, the system had no problem calculating the top ten trios from a data set of 10 billion page visits.

The system runs stably, but isn't ready for serious benchmarking yet. The software is highly threaded, and there appears to be an issue with the futex() system call "appearing to do a busy wait". As a result, instead of the software running near 100% user time ... more than 50% of the time repored is system time (mostly running futex() calls). I'll post separately concerning that issue ... though I'm open to suggestions concerning which topic would be the most effective.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby mad_ady » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:54 pm

Try running your program on the big cores so that threads running on the big cores don't have to wait for resources stuck on the little cores. Use cgroups or taskset to do it.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby golgoth » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:15 pm

odroid wrote:
golgoth wrote:Hello Odroid,
have the HC2 production been launched as planned?


Nope. the schedule is pushed to January due to some raw material lead time issues.
Sorry about that.


Hey Odroid,
has the raw material lead time issues bee solved or should i buy some C2 with my january budget?

keep up the good work :)
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby mad_ady » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:28 pm

I think HC2 will be announced (and ready for sale) starting with the end of this week or next week. I think @odroid mentioned this somewhere on the forum.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby rooted » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:01 pm

Very nice, the 3.5" capability will surely be popular.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby trohn_javolta » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:24 pm



Great news, can you tell me if these products are shipped to the german distributors? If yes, when?
I wanna buy it from pollin.de.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby odroid » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:36 am

trohn_javolta wrote:Great news, can you tell me if these products are shipped to the german distributors? If yes, when?
I wanna buy it from pollin.de.


Please contact Pollin to get a more accurate answer.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby trohn_javolta » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:44 pm

odroid wrote:
trohn_javolta wrote:Great news, can you tell me if these products are shipped to the german distributors? If yes, when?
I wanna buy it from pollin.de.


Please contact Pollin to get a more accurate answer.


I did, but did not get a reply from them. That's why I asked here. I figured if you will/have ship(ped) units to them they'll put it in their assortment.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Jojo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:48 pm

trohn_javolta wrote:
odroid wrote:Please contact Pollin to get a more accurate answer.

I did, but did not get a reply from them. That's why I asked here. I figured if you will/have ship(ped) units to them they'll put it in their assortment.


Yeah, sometimes it can be hard to get support from Pollin. I wrote them three times to get an information about the availability schedule of the VU8C: the first two times with no reaction at all, the third time I told them that their support su*ks and that I gonna buy it elsewhere. After this third mail, I got answer on the same day :roll: . They told me that they did not receive my first two messages... ridiculous.
What worked for me was to send my message to Pollin from within the "Verbesserungsvorschlag" category, while "Fragen zur Buchhaltung" seems not work at all.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby trohn_javolta » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:09 pm

Jojo wrote:
trohn_javolta wrote:
odroid wrote:Please contact Pollin to get a more accurate answer.

I did, but did not get a reply from them. That's why I asked here. I figured if you will/have ship(ped) units to them they'll put it in their assortment.


Yeah, sometimes it can be hard to get support from Pollin. I wrote them three times to get an information about the availability schedule of the VU8C: the first two times with no reaction at all, the third time I told them that their support su*ks and that I gonna buy it elsewhere. After this third mail, I got answer on the same day :roll: . They told me that they did not receive my first two messages... ridiculous.
What worked for me was to send my message to Pollin from within the "Verbesserungsvorschlag" category, while "Fragen zur Buchhaltung" seems not work at all.


I sent an email directly to service@pollin.de. Thx, I'm gonna try send the message within this category.

I see the touch display is avaiable now. Do you recall how long it took from hardkernel product release to avaiability on pollin?
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Jojo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:57 pm

@trohn_javolta:
I propose that you send me a PM, because this is gonna be too much off-topic.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby odroid » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:37 am

I've checked with our sales division and Pollin already ordered HC2 products.
But we have no idea when they start to sell.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Jojo » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:07 pm

@odroid
Ok, thanks! We asked that to Pollin as well, but the information is actually not clear. But at least they are aware of the new product, so we can be sure, that it well be available sooner or later ;)
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby campbell » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:46 am

I don't know if this has been asked, but why are these and other new products based on the XU3/XU4 rather than the C2?
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby memeka » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:25 am

campbell wrote:I don't know if this has been asked, but why are these and other new products based on the XU3/XU4 rather than the C2?

because XU3/XU4 has a USB3 interface which allows a SATA connection, C2 does not.
also XU3/4's CPU is more powerful, and the GPU is more powerful too.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby PigLover » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:06 am

memeka wrote:
campbell wrote:I don't know if this has been asked, but why are these and other new products based on the XU3/XU4 rather than the C2?

because XU3/XU4 has a USB3 interface which allows a SATA connection, C2 does not.
also XU3/4's CPU is more powerful, and the GPU is more powerful too.

Add to that - the XU4 has better kernel level software software support from the chip vendor. Clustering platforms like Docker Swarm and Kubernetes play better with mainline kernel, which is not generally available on c2 (at least not available in a stable form).

One advantage to the C2 is its ARM64 architecture. While 64-bit isn't all that important in a small soc with small memory footprint, there are some important software packages whose 32-bit versions are fairly hobbled (like MongoDB) and a growing set that are not even being built with 32-bit binary distributions anymore.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Jojo » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:11 pm

Jojo wrote:@odroid
Ok, thanks! We asked that to Pollin as well, but the information is actually not clear. But at least they are aware of the new product, so we can be sure, that it well be available sooner or later ;)


I got answer from Pollin: the HC2 will be available there in ~3 weeks.

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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby campbell » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:47 am

PigLover wrote:Clustering platforms like Docker Swarm and Kubernetes play better with mainline kernel, which is not generally available on c2 (at least not available in a stable form).

It's stable for headless usage, which definitely applies to this sort of product.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Jojo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:40 pm

Hello,

the HC2 is now available at Pollin in Germany:
https://www.pollin.de/p/odroid-hc2-einp ... gen-810851

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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby tkaiser » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:47 pm

Jojo wrote:the HC2 is now available at Pollin in Germany:
https://www.pollin.de/p/odroid-hc2-einp ... gen-810851


Let's hope the PSU they recommend https://www.pollin.de/p/tischnetzteil-1 ... hc2-810853 is as stable with 2.5A consumption peaks like Hardkernel's own '2A' 12V PSU...
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby odroid » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:10 pm

It is the same PSU what we've tested. :)
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby trohn_javolta » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:14 pm

tkaiser wrote:
Jojo wrote:the HC2 is now available at Pollin in Germany:
https://www.pollin.de/p/odroid-hc2-einp ... gen-810851


Let's hope the PSU they recommend https://www.pollin.de/p/tischnetzteil-1 ... hc2-810853 is as stable with 2.5A consumption peaks like Hardkernel's own '2A' 12V PSU...


I hope my universal psu can handle that: http://www.ansmann.de/produkte/ladegera ... aps-2250-l
I overread the mentioning of the 2.5A peaks and since odroid recommends a 2A psu and mine puts out 2,25A I thought it's fine.
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby davidleecrites » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:43 am

I might be completely unqualified to make this suggestion -- after all, I just bought my first 4 XU4's for R&D. But given that, let me toss out my wish list for the MC2:

I like the 4 high. It is a good size for me to built out a frame for.

background: I liked the photo you had of the 4x4 with the one power supply, but that is where my issue started. I have built out a lot of data-centers. The biggest pain in the butt is the power and network cables. That is the make-or-break of most data-centers. I'm looking at the potential of building out a beowulf-based set of clusters that would use each MC1 as a cluster. I'd have, say a group of ten of them at each site.

What I'd love to see would be the MC1 where:
* the four boards are already connected to a single power line,
* the fan is also connected to the power line,
* a 5-port gigabit switch is connected, as a 5th item (top or bottom).

The questions then come up as what kind of power connection would go to the 6 units (the four boards, switch, and fan)? The most universal option would be a 110/240 unit; you could even sell one. Y'all are pretty sharp in creating the XU4 to begin with, so I'm betting y'all can come up with an elegant solution. But the "neatness" of only having two cords going to the unit (the network and the power) would make it much more versatile. Perhaps not everyone would need or want it. But it if was an option, I would certainly get it. This could allow me to connect the ten MC2's to a single 12-port gigabit switch/router, and one UPS, and have a clean "data-center" on a shelf.

BTW: I ordered my units last night from ameridroid. I'm hoping this can become the new direction we take. Thanks!
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby odroid » Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:37 am

Very nice review and demo with HC1 & HC2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtHzhtkxIc8
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby tkaiser » Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:31 pm

odroid wrote:Very nice review and demo with HC1 & HC2.


But it should be noted that software/settings matter. The +100 MB/s shown in the test require good software support (kernel and low level settings). With 'distros' that do not take care of the important stuff performance can drop down to below 40 MB/s: http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2686#p11652
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby JenniferT » Thu May 31, 2018 2:53 pm

I power my cluster off a single 180W 19V power brick. I've got a buck converter for each of the boards: http://i.imgur.com/peg0YfN.jpg - it might be a bit more DIY than you want, but it was my only solution as I also don't want multiple power bricks.

Image
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Technicavolous » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:22 am

@JenniferT The only caveat I would give to others about your (quite neatly done) approach of converters is that many of those units put out an immense amount of digital noise, especially when approaching their ratings. I found that keeping this kind of cheap converter below 50% of its rating reduces the hash they give off. If you have a shortwave radio receiver around you will see the 's' meter slowly rise as you load the converter. I've had a couple of these so noisy they actually glitched my XU4.

Looks like you put in some decent bypassing. You seem to have a grasp of power tech, but a lot of SBC experimenters take power as binary - there or not. Noise and other issues sting them in the forms of glitching, write errors, video faults, etc. It's hard to tie those errors to power as they aren't so obvious.

We test the daylights out of power here as we've found it to be the root of a large percentage of issues that people think are actually data problems. Clean power rules especially with SBC's as they expect the filtering to be done at the PS level.

For those of you wanting to experiment with this kind of power converter, read about 'bypass capacitors' and try to get a unit that is rated twice what you expect to draw from it. The Chinese are notorious for ratings called 'max' that really means 'it burns out at this level.' So if your SBC is rated for 2A draw, put a 4A converter on it! (The HC1 peaks at 3A, so a '2A' converter would eventually fail at boot... http://com.odroid.com/sigong/blog/blog_list.php?bid=189)

power_exp.jpg
I've played with a lot of power modules, all but two of these fail! The units on the right are inexpensive DC electronic loads that simulate the draw from your device in a way you can measure the power sources voltage drop, current and noise.
power_exp.jpg (157.38 KiB) Viewed 7760 times

I would suggest acquiring a simple DC electronic load and a decent voltmeter. It will go a long way to 'prove' your power system can handle the draw and I bet you learn a crapload about it! A simple set of resistors if you know ohms law well or something like this https://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw= ... 2749.l2658 is cheap enough to give you some insight to your power.

power_two.jpg
Everyone loves the RD-65A 12v / 5v power supply from Meanwell. Here we are using two DC loads to prove this power supply exceeds its rating easily. Note the voltmeters and current meters - they stay ABOVE the rated voltage at ABOVE the rated current. The unit got fairly warm after about an hour but never faltered.
power_two.jpg (129.33 KiB) Viewed 7760 times


.
What box?
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby rooted » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:33 am

Nice bolo, is that a Polar bear?
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby Technicavolous » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:44 am

Not entirely sure - about 30 years ago an elderly Native American approached my mother out of no where and told her "Take this, one day it will give your son power." Some years back, I went as an underdog to a heavy hitter meeting. I cleaned up and left a grey goat on my face, wore a three piece pin-stripped suit and that bolo ... The 'Southern Gentleman' walked away with the contract ;]

I know I've seen that bear symbol before but I have no clue where. Pewter and Turquoise, nice!
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SD/Armbian
.

Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby rooted » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:18 am

Even better story :)
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Re: Stack-able micro computers

Unread postby odroid » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:41 pm

Very impressive HC2 application. 200TB storage on GlusterFS :o !
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/8ocjxz/200tb_glusterfs_odroid_hc2_build/
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