XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

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c0rn3l
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XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:41 pm

Hi,

Just bought a XU4Q and I ordered a Noctua NF-A4x20 5V to plug on it for better cooling, because on standby tmp is ~55 degr. Celsius and in load it gets to 80-90.

Problem is that the fan is 3 PIN and I want to connect it in the 2 PIN plug that was meant CPU fan. I searched on google for 2 PIN connectors, even I order one adapter 3 PIN to 2 PIN, but nothing seems to fit there.
What is the name for the plug/adapter I need?

Thanks!

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:54 pm

The 1.25mm pitch connector part number is Molex 51021-0200.
Search google it.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by klunkerbus » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:57 am

c0rn3l wrote:What is the name for the plug/adapter I need?
FYI - The small contacts can be a real PIA to work with.

As an alternative to dealing with the connector and small contacts, in the RC realm this connector is known as a "micro JST 1.25" or similar. Try searching on that. Various sources offer a connector with short pigtail wires, saving you the hassle of dealing with the really small contacts. In my recent XU4 build I used a pigtail from Furious FPV P/N FPV-0142-S that I happened to have on hand.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:10 pm

Thanks!

Found the 3d model. I am thinking to print it, because I am not able to find it locally, just to import it from other country.
http://www.molex.com/molex/products/dat ... partdetail

Offtopic: Also I am thinking to create a 3d model case starting from this one :)(not sure if I can find acrylic 3d Print in this city/country):
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1293972

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by klunkerbus » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:50 pm

If you can print one of these small connectors, your 3D printer is FAR better than mine. Don't forget that you'd still need the contacts for the connector, and a crimp tool for the contacts.

edit: BTW, that case is meant to be cut from flat acrylic sheet. You don't 3D-print acrylic. If you're going to 3D print a case, you don't need to print everything as flat pieces. That's one of the great benefits of 3D printing.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by MegaTimX » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:52 am

3D printing is great but you need a printer that costs a few thousand dollars to pull of printing one of those tiny two pin connectors. lol There are a ton of good cases to print on thingiverse though. I had the same issue buying that noctua fan, I got an adapter off of Amazon that I believe will work, it should arrive in a few days. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N1 ... =UTF8&psc=. I do wish that I knew that this fan didn't have the proper adapters, I would have sprung for something more expensive that included it.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:21 am

I am not able to get power from 2 PIN socket which is used for CPU.
I am connecting black and red cables to those 2 pins(in both combination) from a Noctua fan NF-A4x20 5V, but not able to see the fan running.

Please some advice? Do I need to load CPU or to make additional settings?

PS: I don't want to buy a 3D printer, nor own one. I will go to a local 3D printing service provider.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:09 pm

Hmmm...

I found this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=16308

Is there any chance the default to be "Manual" if I did not changed it? (I reinstalled OS with headless Ubuntu version and after I upgraded to latest version using repository: sudo apt-get upgrade ....-image-xu3 ; or something like that)

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:15 pm

The fan should run for a few seconds once you turn your board on.
It must be fine to check the fan wire connection.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:23 pm

With the same wiring, fan works on its usb port connected to PIN 1 + PIN 4.
Any suggestion what may I check? Or any picture will be useful?
Do I need to have CPU stressed? Because I tried even this with:

Code: Select all

$:stress -c 8 -t 300s

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:07 pm

That command should be enough to turn the fan constantly on.
Check the CPU usage with "htop" command.

Did you connect the fan wire to the RTC battery connector?
Do you have a DMM to measure the output voltage on the fan connector?

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:14 pm

Yes, I had a look over cpu while using the "stress" command and it went 100% load all 8 cores and temperature(tmp0...tmp4) ~80degr. Celcius. (not sure if it has any relevance the color of that load in htop, it's all green but in some real use cases I get "red" load)
I tried on RTC battery socket too, even the 4 PIN socket (first 2 pins, black on the outside, as shown here - right image, 4 PIN conenctor -: https://i.imgur.com/x3GO2ff.png ), but I was not able to see the fan running.
I do not have DMM tool.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:02 am

You have to connect the fan wire to the fan 2pin connector nearby the USB 2.0 port.
If you still have the original XU4 fan, connect it first to check your hardware.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:15 pm

odroid wrote:You have to connect the fan wire to the fan 2pin connector nearby the USB 2.0 port.
If you still have the original XU4 fan, connect it first to check your hardware.
That was the socket I connected to first(where it says "FAN" on the board near heat sink - XU4Q)
I don't have an original fan because I bought XU4Q with heatsink.

If it has any relevance, I don't have the directories odroid_fan.14, nor odroid_fan.13 inside devices folder:

Code: Select all

root@stuart:/sys/devices# ls -lrt
total 0
drwxr-xr-x 44 root root 0 Nov 29 18:18 platform
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 0 Nov 29 18:18 breakpoint
drwxr-xr-x  6 root root 0 Nov 29 18:18 system
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root 0 Nov 29 18:18 software
drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 0 Nov 29 18:18 virtual
As read in other topics, fan speed is adjusted based on CPU temperature through voltage input, therefore some settings/configurations must exists.

System info:
OS installed:
ubuntu-16.04.3-4.9-minimal-odroid-xu4-20170824.img.xz (ref.: https://odroid.in/ubuntu_16.04lts/ )

Then upgrade with following commands:

Code: Select all

sudo apt upgrade
sudo apt dist-upgrade
#xu3 image is the same as for xu4
sudo apt install linux-image-xu3 
Current kernel:

Code: Select all

root@stuart:/sys/devices# uname -a
Linux stuart 4.9.61-73 #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Nov 9 17:00:42 UTC 2017 armv7l armv7l armv7l GNU/Linux

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by mad_ady » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:38 am

The odroid_fan.13 or .14 exist only on kernel 3.10.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:13 am

Ok, I bought DMM tool and I can not understand what and why is this behavior.
I am no good at electrical circuits but I found out how to measure them.

The fan mentioned starts on 3 x 1.5V AAA batteries. Voltage is ~4.08V and current oscillate pretty much (between 15 and 60mA, but tends to stay more around 60mA)

On the other hand, with all 8 cores in 100%, Voltage is ~4.15V, all 8 cores in idle Voltage is ~1.10V. Measured current is 0.04mA and I do not understand why the current is not flowing through the same circuit.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by mad_ady » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:38 am

Fan is powered by a pulse width modulated signal. You can measure it with an oscilloscope, but not with a DMM. A DMM will give you a median/average reading of the voltage.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:28 am

mad_ady wrote:Fan is powered by a pulse width modulated signal. You can measure it with an oscilloscope, but not with a DMM. A DMM will give you a median/average reading of the voltage.
Please just tell me, the result from oscilloscope what use has or where it will lead?
As it looks, the fan I bought is not fit for xu4 fan socket? It needs a stronger impulse to start it? It may be anything wrong with odroid?

For sure, it's too much for me to buy an oscilloscope :D.

Propose me please a short/easy resolution if you have any.

The one I am thinking is to mount fan on usb 2.0 (even if it will run at max speed)

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:29 am

c0rn3l wrote:with all 8 cores in 100%, Voltage is ~4.15V, all 8 cores in idle Voltage is ~1.10V.
Your DMM voltage measuring looks fine.
Fan driver circuit can handle up to 100mA probably.
So you have to see the fan specification to check its power rate.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:49 pm

As it looks, max input current is exactly 100mA.
http://noctua.at/en/nf-a4x20-5v/specification

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:56 pm

I have no idea why the fan doesn't run even the PWM output is fine.
What is the voltage level when you connected the fan to the 2pin connector?

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:47 am

As mentioned above:
c0rn3l wrote:... with all 8 cores in 100%, Voltage is ~4.15V, all 8 cores in idle Voltage is ~1.10V ...
I do not have RTC battery, may that affect it to get the initial boost to start it?

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:36 am

Created a new topic on electronics stackexchange. Tough there may be some electrical engineers/pro's that will give me a good advice about this issue.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q ... -batteries

Still, I am open to suggestions here too.
odroid wrote:
c0rn3l wrote:with all 8 cores in 100%, Voltage is ~4.15V, all 8 cores in idle Voltage is ~1.10V.
...
Fan driver circuit can handle up to 100mA probably...
BTW, @odroid you said max input current is 100mA for XU4, but default CPU fan of XU4 uses 120mA (more then my FAN):
http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products ... 6727436639

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:23 pm

Here is a correction.
According to XU4 PCB schematics page 4, the motor driver transistor part number is PBRN123YT.
https://dn.odroid.com/5422/ODROID-XU4/S ... OT1606.pdf

PBRN123YT specification says its maximum driving current is 600mA.
So we can safely drive ~200mA fan motor.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:03 pm

Ok, when I mount the fan, Voltage drops to 0.7V. This means the fan has to much resistance and electricity is going somewhere else? Why is not this happening on USB port?
Smaller fan may have the same problem?

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:03 am

USB port output current is quite larger.

Does your fan has two wires? or three wires?
If it has 3 wires, one wire should be an output for speed detection which should not be connected.
0.7Volt could be caused by the fan internal transistor or diode.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:26 pm

odroid wrote:USB port output current is quite larger.

Does your fan has two wires? or three wires?
If it has 3 wires, one wire should be an output for speed detection which should not be connected.
0.7Volt could be caused by the fan internal transistor or diode.
Fan has 3 wires (3 PINS). 3rd wire is not connected to anything

This is the scenario:
- CPU is somewhere around 1-6% load. Temperature is ~55degr. Celsius. I measure Voltage on the 2 PINs of the Odroid FAN socket. It measures somewhere where between 0 to 1V.
- I stress the CPU(all 8 cores) with "stress" command. All 8 cores get in 100% load (checked with "htop" command). Temperature gets around ~80degr celsius in ~10-30sec (cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0...thermal_zone4/temp)
- I measure the Voltage on those PINs again. Voltage is ~4.10V
- I connect the fan to those PIN's and 3rd wire is not connected to anything. I measure the voltage: Voltage is 0.7V. Fan is not starting
- I stop the stress command. CPU load comes back to 1-10% load. Temperature drop to ~55degr. Celsius in ~1min.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:51 pm

Swap two wires if the motor polarity does matter.
0.7Volt could be made by the flyback diode in the fan.

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:55 am

As I know, the fan has polarity protection. I swapped them, but as expected fan is not working an voltage remains at 4.15V like wires are not connected to anything. Why that flyback diode is a problem for this fan socket and not for a 3 PIN socket or USB socket?

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by odroid » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:40 am

You are right. I should remember your USB connection had no issue.
I really have no idea why your fan doesn't work. :(

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:33 pm

Can you explain me please what represents the following locations? I did not found on google
As showed in /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zoneX/type (X ranges from 0 to 4), it is said that zone0-zone3 represents CPU0-CPU3, and zone4 represents GPU. What represents this CPU0-CPU3 and GPU? I have 8 cores and I didn't know Odroid has a dedicated GPU :D.

What about /sys/class/thermal/cooling_devicesY (Y ranges from 0 to 2)? Are there any parameters that I may change to control CPU FAN? Or is any of the bellow files related/useful to Odroid XU4? I see following directories inside:
- cur_state
- max_state
- power
- subsystem
- type
- uevent

Many thanks for your time!
Today another Noctua Fan arrives which is half wide of this and has max input current of 50mA instead of 100mA. I will post here what is going on with that :). When I get home with the new fan, I will post some graphs.

I also made some temperature tests with that fan mounted on USB and seems it is better to blow from above instead of sucking the air (the difference is around 6 degr. Celsius)

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by mad_ady » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:49 pm

The SOC has 5 temperature sensors. 0-3 are sensors for the 4 big cores (the little cores don't have temperature sensors). Zone 4 is for GPU (MALI).

The cooling devices can be tied to active (fans) or passive measures.
Kernel 4.9 exposes the fan speed inside /sys/devices/platform/pwm-fan:/hwmon/hwmon0/fan_speed. Kernel 4.14 doesn't expose it yet.

Code: Select all

if [ -f '/sys/devices/platform/pwm-fan:/hwmon/hwmon0/fan_speed' ]; then
        #set fan speed
        logger -s -t $0 "Set fan speed"
        echo "0 80 150 245" > /sys/devices/platform/pwm-fan\:/hwmon/hwmon0/fan_speed
fi
The 4 values correspond to the 3 trip point temperatures:

Code: Select all

if [ -f /sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/trip_point_0_temp ]; then
    logger -s -t $0 "Set thermal trip points to 60C"
echo '60000' > /sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/trip_point_0_temp
echo '70000' > /sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/trip_point_1_temp
echo '80000' > /sys/devices/virtual/thermal/thermal_zone0/trip_point_2_temp
fi

So, if trip_point1_temp is exceeded, fan uses 150 PWM fill (out of 255) when spinning (~60%).

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by c0rn3l » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:43 am

I received the other noctua fan today which is 5V/50mA: http://noctua.at/en/nf-a4x10-5v/specification
On 2 PIN socket Fan is not starting :((. Voltage before mounting the fan is ~4.10V. After I mount the fan it is dropping to ~1.46V (voltage is double with fan mounted compared to the other fan)

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by roots » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:48 pm

Any news about the setup with the fan? Thanks

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Re: XU4 fan 2 pin plug type?

Unread post by roots » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:02 pm

If somebody else will reach this topic this is my conlusion from other similar topic:

I will try to summarize my experience with the others users which are still struggling with the fan.
I have an Odroid XU4 with a heatsink like this one: https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/4-pieces ... TEM_DETAIL

I bought a Noctua NF-A4x10 5V: https://noctua.at/en/nf-a4x10-5v
It's a 3 wire fan: Black:GND, Red:Power supply(+5Volts) and Yellow:Tachometric signal
You can use the fan without the Yellow wire.
Regarding the connector (Molex 51021-0200 / 1.25mm pitch) it's a pain, don't try to use a pin header with the 1.25 pitch, the pins of the male connector from odroid are not circular in section, so you cannot plug a normal pin header. If you think that you can use only the pins from molex (without the housing), forget it, because they will not fit perfectly, only take a look here: https://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/adobe3D/50079-8000.pdf. Pins can be used only with a housing otherwise they will slip from the connector, and you don't want this.
I made an improvisation from some other connector "carved" with a blade. Until I will order some molex connectors.

This fan worth the money, it's very silent, I cannot compare it with the odroid original fan. From now on, If I ever need a fan I will definitely choose a Noctua one.

FAQ:
Yes, the ODROID XU4 provide enough current to control the FAN.
The Odroid control the fan with a PWM signal.
You don't need a PWM fan from Noctua. The PWM fans have 4 wires.
If you fan is not starting, check the connection to the fan plug. Most Noctua fans has internally a diode for polarity protection.

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