OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

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OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby Valsi » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:58 pm

Hello,

have seen that OMV 3.x will not be maintained anymore. Will there any image available for OMV 4.x soon or an update?

thx

Rudi
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby rooted » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:32 pm

You would need to ask this over on their forum.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby Valsi » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:46 pm

I was asking because in the wiki there is an image for our products available but only 3.x So I assumed that this will be provided by Hardkernel
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby odroid » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:50 pm

I believe you can install OMV 4.x armhf package on this Debian Stretch image.
viewtopic.php?f=96&t=30552

But it is worth to wait for OMV maintainers' official answer.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby Obihoernchen » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:53 am

Official OMV images are based on Armbian.
There are OMV v4 images available: https://sourceforge.net/projects/openme ... Computers/

You can also upgrade your existing OMV installation with omv-release-upgrade. Worked like a charm for me.

Also see: https://forum.openmediavault.org/index. ... -a-how-to/
Last edited by Obihoernchen on Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby odroid » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:03 am

I didn't know OMV 4 was already released last week. :o
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby rooted » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:15 am

Obihoernchen wrote:Official OMV images are based on Armbian.
There are OMV v4 images available: https://sourceforge.net/projects/openme ... Computers/

You can also upgrade your existing OMV installation with omv-release-upgrade. Worked like a charm for me.

Also see: https://forum.openmediavault.org/index. ... -a-how-to/
The XU4,HC1/2 image is not great. The apt sources list is messed up, has a bunch of duplicates. This is just one of the main issues, there are others.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby Valsi » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:09 pm

rooted wrote:The XU4,HC1/2 image is not great. The apt sources list is messed up, has a bunch of duplicates. This is just one of the main issues, there are others.


Good morning,

so your recommendation is to wait until havening the issues fixed?
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby rooted » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:35 pm

My recommendation is unimportant, I was just putting the information out there.

Use what you like ;)

The kernel is still 4.9 (due to issues as I'm told). I really just don't like Armbian, they make invasive changes to the way Debian works. All just personal opinion.

Don't confuse OMV with Armbian (OMV is nice), it's just that the OMV image runs on Armbian. AFAIK you can install OMV into any Debian based distribution.
Valsi wrote:
rooted wrote:The XU4,HC1/2 image is not great. The apt sources list is messed up, has a bunch of duplicates. This is just one of the main issues, there are others.


Good morning,

so your recommendation is to wait until havening the issues fixed?
Last edited by rooted on Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby Obihoernchen » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:30 pm

Yes armbian is probably not the cleanest distro ;) I noticed this as well.
Also the kernel upgrade mess from 4.9 to 4.14... reverting everything back and forth.

FYI: You can switch to nightly with armbian-config to get 4.14 kernel. I didn't encounter any issues with 4.14 so far.

Basically armbian is just the kernel, a graphical config utility (armbian-config) and a package with some tuning stuff (CPU binning, IRQ tuning, network tuning etc.)
The following packages are installed on top of stock debian on my system:
Code: Select all
i   armbian-config                                 - Armbian configuration utility
i   armbian-firmware-full                          - Linux firmware-full
i   armbian-tools-stretch                          - Armbian tools, Cubie bt utils
i   linux-dtb-dev-odroidxu4                        - Linux DTB, version 4.14.48-odroidxu4
i   linux-headers-dev-odroidxu4                    - Linux kernel headers for 4.14.48-odroidxu4 on armhf
i   linux-image-dev-odroidxu4                      - Linux kernel, version 4.14.48-odroidxu4
i   linux-stretch-root-dev-odroidxu4               - Armbian tweaks for stretch on odroidxu4 (dev branch)
i   linux-u-boot-odroidxu4-dev                     - Uboot loader 2017.05
i   sunxi-tools                                    - tools for working with Allwinner (sunxi) ARM processors
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby rooted » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:29 am

Don't forget about the convoluted way /boot works, this is the least favorite aspect to me.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby igorpec » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:38 pm

Basically armbian is just the kernel, a graphical config utility (armbian-config) and a package


Armbian is an extensive build script first: https://github.com/armbian/build (where you can check how it is actually made), then it's a community https://forum.armbian.com/ and ... we also provide Debian/Ubuntu prebuild images with free technical support on userspace level and below.

Obihoernchen wrote:Yes armbian is probably not the cleanest distro ;) I noticed this as well.


Really? What is dirty? Can you be more precise? The only package - from this quick shallow overview - that doesn't belong in is tiny sunxi-tools package ... that will be fixed asap. What else?

rooted wrote: I really just don't like Armbian, they make invasive changes to the way Debian works. All just personal opinion.


You have all rights to hate our work, but even this is might be your personal aspect, I would expect that you will explain what is so problematic and bad? If it has real grounds, it will be gladly fixed, changed and cleaned up.

For start, name a change, which you call invasive and it's pointless. Have you mixed Armbian for something else :?: :D
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby rooted » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:07 am

igorpec wrote:You have all rights to hate our work, but even this is might be your personal aspect, I would expect that you will explain what is so problematic and bad? If it has real grounds, it will be gladly fixed, changed and cleaned up.

For start, name a change, which you call invasive and it's pointless. Have you mixed Armbian for something else :?: :D


The way you do /boot on the XU4, why is it so complex? It's unnecessary, see the way it is done on all other OS but you choose more complexity.

Instead of simply using three sources.list.d files you use six, why? This isn't necessary and is why on the latest XU4 image you have duplicates.

I don't hate your work, I just don't agree with some of your choices. I have had Armbian on my cloudshell 2 break twice from simple apt updates in the past, complex installs which cost me a lot of time. This could be prevented if you had a testing branch which actually gets tested before moving things to stable.

Please don't take it personally, I know you put a lot of time and effort in for no reward. I have been using and contributing to Linux for a long time also and I know it feels like a personal attack when you see such comments. It's why I said my recommendation is unimportant to use what you like.

I think you do a great job at trying to support many devices and include fixes to the many hardware issues that exist over many different SoC.

This is from a simple 'apt update' on the latest XU4 Armbian build.

https://pastebin.com/9u5SLrSZ
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby igorpec » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:03 am

This is from a simple 'apt update' on the latest XU4 Armbian build.


Are you serious? OMV is 3rd party application on top of Armbian. Is image perhaps signed with my PGP key? If not, we have nothing to discuss and this bogus comparison, which came from an expert which should know all this, hurts. But I am used and don't want to pollute this topic further. Don't worry :)

he way you do /boot on the XU4, why is it so complex?


The unified boot process, which bring a few complications, is needed if we want to

support many devices


But again I have no idea what exactly you are referring to. Is stock simpler?

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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby rooted » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:05 am

igorpec wrote:
This is from a simple 'apt update' on the latest XU4 Armbian build.


Are you serious? OMV is 3rd party application on top of Armbian. Is image perhaps signed with my PGP key? If not, we have nothing to discuss and this bogus comparison, which came from an expert which should know all this, hurts. But I am used and don't want to pollute this topic further. Don't worry :)

Have a nice weekend!


Excuse me, it is an OMV image running Armbian. The image is from here:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/openme ... Computers/

File:

OMV_4_Odroid_XU4_HC1_HC2.img.xz

So I guess one of my issues (sources.list.d) is with OMV, the rest stand.

I didn't say I'm an expert, I have been using and contributing to Linux for about 18 to 20 years so I know a bit.

You have a nice weekend, I'm sorry I offended you. I can see it looks like I'm bashing Armbian, I probably shouldn't have said anything. It was not my intention, just poor conveyance of my opinion.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby igorpec » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:54 pm

Excuse me, it is an OMV image running Armbian. The image is from here:


Nope. That is an OMV suite, a dedicated application image, which is extremely bulky since it comes with all sort of stuff, on top of Armbian which is therefore changed beyond recognition.

The only Armbian, which you have a right to complain about or compare with, can be downloaded here: https://www.armbian.com/download

Try it. I am sure your perspective will change for 180°:)
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby Obihoernchen » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:52 pm

igorpec wrote:Armbian is an extensive build script first: https://github.com/armbian/build (where you can check how it is actually made), then it's a community https://forum.armbian.com/ and ... we also provide Debian/Ubuntu prebuild images with free technical support on userspace level and below.

Yes of course! I was just referring to the average user who downloads OMV based on armbian. For him there a few packages on top of debian (which is great!). He probably does not need the build system.
Btw I used it myself it's nice :)

igorpec wrote:Really? What is dirty? Can you be more precise? The only package - from this quick shallow overview - that doesn't belong in is tiny sunxi-tools package ... that will be fixed asap. What else?

Not clean might be a little bit harsh I agree. It's mostly cosmetic stuff I noticed like sunxi-tools or that everytime I update the linux-stretch-root-dev-odroidxu4 package I get two new .dpkg-dist files, even so the md5 is exactly the same:
Code: Select all
/etc/default/armbian-motd.dpkg-dist
/etc/default/log2ram.dpkg-dist

Just really minor unimportant things, but I noticed them ;)

I really like armbian don't get me wrong! In fact I'm using it on two devices. I even converted one of my XU4's running stock debian to armbian afterwards :D
The armhwinfo script is awesome! Now I don't have to do the whole tuning (irq, eth queue, governor, ...) on my own anymore. Really appreciate this ;)

The only thing I don't like (all the other stuff described above is not important at all for me) are the kernel packages.
3.10 is super old and lacks essential features, 4.9 is not officially supported anymore since Nov? 2017.
Nevertheless to get 4.14 you have to switch to nightly and install the dev kernel.
The naming is a little bit confusing as well imo. I would expect to get the officially supported 4.14 kernel with stable.
Btw I'm running nightly, dev 4.14 and it's running great for me.

nightly
Code: Select all
linux-image-dev-odroidxu4 - Linux kernel, version 4.14.48-odroidxu4
linux-image-next-odroidxu4 - Linux kernel, version 4.9.103-odroidxu4
linux-image-odroidxu4 - Linux kernel, version 3.10.106-odroidxu4


stable
Code: Select all
linux-image-dev-odroidxu4 - Linux kernel, version 4.9.71-odroidxu4
linux-image-next-odroidxu4 - Linux kernel, version 4.9.61-odroidxu4
linux-image-odroidxu4 - Linux kernel, version 3.10.106-odroidxu4
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby tkaiser » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:58 pm

rooted wrote:The XU4,HC1/2 image is not great. The apt sources list is messed up, has a bunch of duplicates. This is just one of the main issues, there are others.


Thank you for the 'report' (especially here where it's ensured that nothing changes). Just for your info: there's one duplicate apt source line in this image and this is neither Armbian nor OMV but due to 'OMV Extras' which are installed for convenience by default by my and other people's OMV installation scripts. It generates warnings on armhf and arm64 and that's all: https://forum.openmediavault.org/index. ... post176874

This time I decided to not spend 3 whole days of my life with testing but asked others to help and as usual no one reported this stuff when it was easy to correct and almost no one reported it later where it belongs to -- check the 'feedback' here: https://forum.openmediavault.org/index. ... RM-boards/

In the meantime the image creation routine contains the fix but this will only apply to images I created recently (only RK3328 boards so far). I'll ask 'OMV Extras' maintainer to fix the problem with the duplicate entry at the source (the source list entry is irrelevant on ARM and it's a conflict between OMV and 'OMV Extras' for whatever reasons I don't understand since not involved into this backports kernel stuff needed for x86)

Please keep in mind that several layers are affected with those OMV images for ARM boards

- OMV Extras (extra stuff for convenience -- this is where the warning originates from)
- OMV (the application stuff + many optimizations)
- Debian -- this is where this warning with OMV4 originates people panic about: https://forum.openmediavault.org/index. ... post154150
- Armbian (many optimizations, kernel, bootloader)

Every layer has it's own chance for failure (e.g. Armbian kernel updates bricking devices)

Wrt 'the way Debian works'... are you kidding? How is bootloader related to Debian? Yeah, Hardkernel shipped for a very long time eMMC modules pre-flashed with a crippled u-boot only able to deal with Windows filesystems but no Linux filesystems). That was a real problem... but how is this related to Debian?

And yeah, everyone around copies stupidly the Rasperry Pi partition schema for no reason. The only SBC that needs FAT is the Raspberry Pi, no other SBC needs a foreign filesystem (this Windows stuff called FAT lacking POSIX compliance) as /boot partition!
Last edited by tkaiser on Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby tkaiser » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:10 pm

rooted wrote:AFAIK you can install OMV into any Debian based distribution


Sure. But when the kernel this 'Debian based distribution' is using isn't built with all OMV features in mind some stuff won't work afterwards. Also Debian Stretch requires at least kernel 3.16 for all features. Also our OMV installation routine contains a bunch of fixes/tweaks you won't benefit from if you install OMV on any random Debian and then performance sucks.

Just check last 'Additional note' here: https://forum.openmediavault.org/index. ... -a-how-to/

BTW: I agree that switching to 4.14 would be nice but I don't see remaining at 4.9 for now an issue other than users not able to use the Exynos crypto acceleration with 4.9. Are there other benefits with 4.14? You are aware that Igor keeps 4.9 up to date: https://github.com/armbian/build/tree/m ... idxu4-next
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby tkaiser » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:17 pm

Valsi wrote:Will there any image available for OMV 4.x soon or an update?


Better ask the next time such questions where they belong to (that's not 'random vendor community' but somewhere else. Same with such funny stuff: https://forum.openmediavault.org/index.php/Thread/23506 -- haven't found a thread here where the whining could be copied from)
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby odroid » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:31 pm

Today, we've tested the OMV 3.x and the latest OMV 4.x image to compare the Samba performance and the thermal issue.
There was no critical problem in OMV 4.x with HC2 as well as CloudShell2 so far.
viewtopic.php?f=97&t=31486&p=228225#p228225
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby tkaiser » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:07 pm

odroid wrote:https://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=31486&p=228225#p228225


Thanks for the link, now I know where this 'OMV4 is broken for XU4' BS originates from.

Ok, it's such an insane waste to join these crappy vendor forums with those fanclubs. Bye, bye.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby rooted » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:01 pm

odroid wrote:Today, we've tested the OMV 3.x and the latest OMV 4.x image to compare the Samba performance and the thermal issue.
There was no critical problem in OMV 4.x with HC2 as well as CloudShell2 so far.
viewtopic.php?f=97&t=31486&p=228225#p228225
Thanks for the testing odroid, where did you get OMV 3? Did you enable NFS on your installations?

I don't understand why I have issues with OMV 4 but I will take your word for it, perhaps it has something to do with one of my drives or the fact I'm running the original CloudShell 2 firmware.

I switched to meveric's Debian Stretch, installed and enabled NFS and have no issues. No kernel stack traces, everything is working as it should.
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby odroid » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 pm

We have an OMV 3 image in our local SMB server (Cloudshell2 which has run OMV 3 over 10 months of uptime and it's time to switch to OMV 4).
We didn't test the NFS on OMV 4 yet.

We will update this OMV wiki pages with OMV 4 eventually from a few weeks later since we have a couple of urgent internal projects.
https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-xu4/soft ... as/eng/eng
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Re: OMV 3.x with not be maintained anymore

Unread postby rooted » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:18 pm

I am almost certain it is due to the fact I'm running the original JMicron firmware on the CloudShell 2 and some tweak Armbian has enabled.

The stack traces I saw were related to UAS.

I ran OMV 3 for a long time without issues as well, but I didn't upgrade the kernel because the one time I did I experienced a similar problem with my drives.
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