Game Nostalgia

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Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:12 am

I had a TurboGrafx 16 (US PC Engine) back when they came out and it wasn't truly 16bit I don't believe, but it did have dual 8bit processors if I remember correctly. Likely none of that matters, just what I seem to recall.

There were a lot of games worth playing, the Bonk and Splatterhouse series were my favorite. But many more exist.

I guess that's why you said "16-bit" :)
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Re: PC Engine?

Unread postby meveric » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:23 am

rooted wrote:I had a TurboGrafx 16 (US PC Engine) back when they came out and it wasn't truly 16bit I don't believe, but it did have dual 8bit processors if I remember correctly. Likely none of that matters, just what I seem to recall.

8bit CPU 16bit GPU therefore called 16bit system due to 16bit graphics. Still, it was build to compete with the NES, not SNES, but managed to start the 16bit era of consoles :)

rooted wrote:There were a lot of games worth playing, the Bonk and Splatterhouse series were my favorite. But many more exist.

They have many good games, and some were actually impressive. The Castlevania port they had was awesome for its time.
I actually plan on making an series around that emulator :D

rooted wrote:I guess that's why you said "16-bit" :)

Due to 16bit graphics, yep. In fact there's an article about this in the last ODROID Magazine ;)
https://magazine.odroid.com/article/lin ... urbografx/
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Re: PC Engine?

Unread postby rooted » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:39 am

The D-Pad on the TG16 was amazing compared to basically all other D-Pads. And the buttons had built in turbo :)

Hu Cards were flimsy, I broke a few by stepping on them. After a session I didn't always remember to pick them up and in the dark...snap.

Very nice article, I hadn't seen it. I agree, the TG16 was really underrated.

The 3DO was also underrated, I had one of those as well and loved it. It was the most expensive system I ever purchased, I think the SegaCD was second most expensive (tied with PS1). I have been a gamer since the Atari 2600 and had most mainstream systems since then.

The only system I really wanted and never had was the Neo•Geo, the system price wasn't out of range but the games costed WAY too much.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:24 am

I split out our conversation, as not to "pollute" the other thread too much, but I kinda like that topic :D

rooted wrote:The D-Pad on the TG16 was amazing compared to basically all other D-Pads. And the buttons had built in turbo :)

Yes I've seen the controllers and they look actually quite nice, the build in turbo switches are also awesome in my opinion only a few consoles offered something similar.
When it comes to gamepads, I've been using the controllers from Sega's Mastersystem for a very long time, not for the SMS, but for the C64 and the Amiga most of the time.
Much better than what you could buy as a joystick back then, although many said the SMS controller was not very good, I much preferred him over NES and other consoles of it's time.

rooted wrote:Hu Cards were flimsy, I broke a few by stepping on them. After a session I didn't always remember to pick them up and in the dark...snap.

Still I like the idea, they are thin light and easy to transport, I imagine taking a bunch of them with me with just a rubber band around it when you go visit a friend.
Much easier than tons of cartridges or 5 1/4 Inch disks :D

rooted wrote:Very nice article, I hadn't seen it. I agree, the TG16 was really underrated.

Thanks, I wished I had one back then, but living in Europe (east Germany to be exactly) we didn't even know it existed ;)

rooted wrote:The 3DO was also underrated, I had one of those as well and loved it.

I've checked on many of the games (as it kinda runs ok~good on ODROID XU4 it's worth giving a try) but I only found a few games that I was actually interested in.
I probably just haven't got my head around the system yet. I know it was very expensive, and I recently was in a "Second Chance" and they had one:
IMG_20180606_175421.jpg
Second Chance
(You probably have to download the image to see it in full)
Hard to tell, but it's in the lower right corner, the price tag is cut off but you can still read the 3DO label.
I think it was the same price as a "new one" back then, about $600 so yeah, not very good.
They also had a SegaCD and I was half tempted, but it's also very expensive and you need a Genesis as well, which would put you in a price range between $250 and $300, and I thought nope, that's too much buck for a little fun ;)
I decided running these games on ODROIDs is good enough for me :P
Although I'm still thinking about getting a real PC-Engine/TurboGrafx but probably the Duo if possible. Although they are expensive as well and the Duo even now costs around $700 :(
But I heard there's an modern expansion for the PC-Engine/TurboGrafx-16 which costs about $300 and allows you to play games from SD card (even CD games).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DL3n6wbVk
That one could actually be interesting, although I really like the design of the Duo consoles.

rooted wrote:It was the most expensive system I ever purchased

Totally understand that, to be honest I would have never spend so much money on a console :D

rooted wrote:I think the SegaCD was second most expensive (tied with PS1).

I thought they were kinda cheap compared with the 3DO? About $200~$300 for a PS1 or SegaCD compared to the $700 of a 3DO?

rooted wrote:I have been a gamer since the Atari 2600 and had most mainstream systems since then.

Well growing up in (east) Germany the story was quite different here (It's actually something I write about for my next ODROID article).
My first console was an Atari as well, but I can't remember which one it was. The only game I really remember that I played was Pitfall, and it could have actually been Pitfall so I'm not 100% sure but I think it was the A2600 as well that I had.
After that it was micro computers, C64, several Amigas. That's how I grew up. I needed to learn how to start programs, switch disks, install programs and that alike. It was not just plugin in a cartridge and everything works^^
I had much later a SMS for a very short while and was very disappointed it had "Road On" on it rather than "Alex Kidd - In Miracle World" I thought it was the only game that came on the system, but sadly I was wrong.
Later it was the Amiga CD32 (also just for a short while) and after that a Dreamcast (never knew it would grow to a big thing) which I still have today.

rooted wrote:The only system I really wanted and never had was the Neo•Geo, the system price wasn't out of range but the games costed WAY too much.

Yeah NeoGeo was extremely expensive and so were the games. But I have a hard time getting around the game library of MAME and NeoGeo.. There's only so much shooter and fighting games I can stomach :)


Oh yeah I realized by looking at the picture they actually had a Sega Saturn there and I was half tempted, but then I saw I can get it for the same price on eBay in my country which is probably better :D
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:05 am

Correct the 3DO I caught on sale for $600 back in early to mid 90's. The games I played most were Crash 'n Burn, Total Eclipse, Road Rash, Need for Speed, Gex, and a few others. The controller had a headphone jack, how cool was that.

I paid $300 for the PS1 on release day, the SegaCD also was $300 but I got a new Genesis to go with it since the one I had was technically borrowed.

I left my TG16 in the attic of my old house :(
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:20 am

I did lust after the TurboExpress and never had one of those. The Sega Nomad was another cool portable I didn't have.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:25 am

rooted wrote:Correct the 3DO I caught on sale for $600 back in early to mid 90's.

Yeah, I would have never paid that price, nor would my parents have. And then you pay 50 bucks a game.
I had an Amiga, not sure the price, but hey.. games you got from friends and neighbors :D
I just remembered today I was sent to people I've never met before, cause my dad or my uncle just said "go to that guy he has Amiga games".
No one cared that you basically went to a total stranger at that time :D
But hey I had over 200 games for my Amiga :P

rooted wrote:The games I played most were Crash 'n Burn, Total Eclipse, Road Rash, Need for Speed, Gex, and a few others. The controller had a headphone jack, how cool was that.

I always test with Super Street Fighter II Turbo the performance of the emulator, but I also played Gex on the ODROID. I have to check on the other games you mention.
But I remember that Need for Speed 3DO version was much slower/laggier than PS1 or PC version.

rooted wrote:I paid $300 for the PS1 on release day, the SegaCD also was $300 but I got a new Genesis to go with it since the one I had was technically borrowed.

I had none of these. And I only knew a few guys that had a PS1. I never got into it, although I'm pretty sure I missed a lot of good stuff.
I'm kinda glad most of this stuff runs perfectly fine on ODROIDs. Being able to pick out the best games for each system is really awesome. There aren't many "outstanding" games for SegaCD, but the few that are, really are good and I love it :)


rooted wrote:I left my TG16 in the attic of my old house :(

Aww that sucks.. but the TG16 is not that expensive.. $60~$100 if I remember correctly. Getting a CD drive or a Duo is very expensive though.

rooted wrote:I did lust after the TurboExpress and never had one of those. The Sega Nomad was another cool portable I didn't have.

Yep both impressive.. 16bit hardware in a handheld format, not comparable with the "weak" GameBoy or GameBoy Color. Even the GameGear was already very good in matter of capabilities.
Always wanted a GameGear, never got it. But hey I had a "Game & Watch" although I just realized that a couple years back ;)
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:43 am

A lot of SegaCD games were FMV junk, like Night Trap. But there were a few gems, can't really remember the name of any of them though.

The PS1 had so many great games. Crash Bandicoot, Tekken, Ridge Racer, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy and probably a thousand others. It was truly next generation compared to everything before it. I still have a PS One but haven't played it in ages, I don't know what happen to my original.

My current gaming systems are an original Xbox, Xbox One S, PS One, and PS4. My kids or brother did away with the rest of them as time went on.

I don't game much currently, I have been playing a few MAME titles lately. Choplifter, Mortal Kombat 3, Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Metal Slug 3. I want to play Killer Instict but haven't gotten it to work.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:00 pm

rooted wrote:A lot of SegaCD games were FMV junk, like Night Trap. But there were a few gems, can't really remember the name of any of them though.

Yes a lot of the early CD systems had a lot of FMV junk "the future of gaming" it was called -.-
But the SegaCD had some real gems, Popful Mail is one of my favorite games, and they had a version of Monkey Island and Wing Commander (one of my favorite games as a child on the Amiga), and of cause there was Snatcher which is amazing!

rooted wrote:The PS1 had so many great games. Crash Bandicoot, Tekken, Ridge Racer, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy and probably a thousand others. It was truly next generation compared to everything before it. I still have a PS One but haven't played it in ages, I don't know what happen to my original.

Yeah there are a lot of nice IPs on the PS1 but there are some of the really well known IPs I really don't care about, Tekken is something I never liked, there are so much better fighting games in my opinion, and I'd play Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast 100 times over Tekken on PS1. Crash and Metal Gear is also nothing I care much about. Although I found Metal Gear kinda impressive at its time. Final Fantasy yes, is really good, although I never had time to finish these.
I know the PS1 had some awesome titles, especially when it came to RPGs (which is one of my favorite genres) but I never had the chance to play them as a child. Once again, consoles were not that big of a topic where I lived ;)

rooted wrote:My current gaming systems are an original Xbox, Xbox One S, PS One, and PS4. My kids or brother did away with the rest of them as time went on.

I don't own a lot of consoles/handhalds. I still have my good old Dreamcast and probably will never part from it, even if I haven't uses it in a while.
I also have a Wii which has some very good titles on it. NDSi XL is one of my favorite handhelds which I have.
Aside from my ODROIDs that's about it.. I always was more of a PC guy then consoles, but hey.. I can play them on ODROIDs now :D

rooted wrote:I don't game much currently, I have been playing a few MAME titles lately. Choplifter, Mortal Kombat 3, Street Fighter Alpha 3 and Metal Slug 3. I want to play Killer Instict but haven't gotten it to work.

Arcade is nothing I play that often. Fighters and Shooters is mostly what it comes down to and it can get really boring quickly in my opinion. But yes I love the Metal Slug series as well.
Killer Instinct is probably best played for the N64 on ODROIDs as the MAME version is way too slow.
I currently went back to play a few PC games, I just finished Rebel Galaxy for the PC and was surprised how much I liked it. Wasted over 50 hrs on that game, which is very rare.
I also try to finish Satellite Reign (playing on my Linux Laptop) very interesting game with sneaking and also a lot of fighting.

But I really want to go back to play a little bit more on the ODROID.
I was playing Monster World IV like crazy a little while back, I really love this game. Also Wonder Boy in Monster World which I want to finish.
I also finally finished Alex Kidd in Miracle World on the ODROID Go. I wanted to finish this game since 2nd grade, so yeah that took me a while, but was kinda quick and fun on the ODROID Go.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:36 pm

The Dreamcast was probably my most played console, my friends would come over all the time to play Soul Calibur. I was unstoppable with Mitsurugi so I had to let them play amongst themselves.

Power Stone was another amazing fighter. Then there was Shenmue, the most beautiful game. Jet Set Radio was groundbreaking. I played Tony Hawk Pro Skater for at least a couple of hundred hours. I even played the oddity that was Seamen, raised a few :)

Skies of Arcadia and Legacy of Kain absorbed a LOT of my time also.

Thanks to Kalisto and Echelon for ruining the best console, I was so very angry at these guys for a long time. I downloaded a single ISO to see if I could really play burned discs, when it worked I knew it was over for the mighty Dreamcast.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:28 pm

rooted wrote:The Dreamcast was probably my most played console, my friends would come over all the time to play Soul Calibur. I was unstoppable with Mitsurugi so I had to let them play amongst themselves.

Mitsurugi was also mine favorite character loved that samurai look and his moves.. but I doubt I could pull off all moves, but I could beat every enemy with him as well :D

rooted wrote:Power Stone was another amazing fighter.

Power Stone 2 was THE party game.. 4 people in front of the TV and everyone is bashing everyone :D
I think I like it even more than the these Smash Brothers games, especially with the changing environment.

rooted wrote:Then there was Shenmue, the most beautiful game.

Always wanted to play/finish the game.. but never had time for it.. I played Shenmue 2 for quite a while but never got seriously far in the game.

rooted wrote:Jet Set Radio was groundbreaking. I played Tony Hawk Pro Skater for at least a couple of hundred hours.

I've played it, but it's not my favorite type of game so I don't care much about them ;)

rooted wrote:I even played the oddity that was Seamen, raised a few :)

Seen it, never had it.. but it's a very odd game :D

rooted wrote:Skies of Arcadia and Legacy of Kain absorbed a LOT of my time also.

OH YES, I played Skies of Arcadia for ever, and still want to try it again, also Grandia 2.
Legacy of Kain i played and finished on the PC though, but I didn't get my head around the successors.

rooted wrote:Thanks to Kalisto and Echelon for ruining the best console, I was so very angry at these guys for a long time. I downloaded a single ISO to see if I could really play burned discs, when it worked I knew it was over for the mighty Dreamcast.

I don't think they ruined it. Sega did it with the 32x and Saturn. Third Party Developers where really pissed and Sega had to produce most of the games themselves. Also they announced it dead although it was really hitting off.
They outsold the console when it was first on market, they produced to few at the beginning, and then announced they stop producing it, basically telling everyone they are screwed.
Every Console was pirated, the PS1 was pirated as well, but that didn't stop them from putting out more and more games.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:05 pm

The 32X was a nail in the coffin for sure, I almost abandoned Sega after this ridiculous add-on and certainly didn't purchase it.

The thing about PS1 piracy you needed a modchip, with the Dreamcast you didn't need anything. At first you needed a loader disk but then they figured out how to add self loading to them. But you are right, I had forgotten about the 32X and how few people actually owned a Dreamcast and minimal library compared to other systems. This had to be a large factor as well.

I don't think I have ever talked to anyone who knows as much or more about games as myself, it's nice.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:45 am

rooted wrote:The 32X was a nail in the coffin for sure, I almost abandoned Sega after this ridiculous add-on and certainly didn't purchase it.

Yes the 32x was kinda dumb, and it was released nearly at the same time as the Sega Saturn, in fact in Japan the Saturn was released BEFORE the 32x -.-
The 32x was a very bad business decision of SEGA USA -.-
Sega Japan wanted to jump to the Saturn right away.
But the Saturn was also rushed to the marked to compete with the "upcoming" PS1, 3D graphics was a afterthought and you see that in every 3D game on the system, although it had less issues with warping textures as on the PS1 it was still looking terrible, and it was a horror to program for it.
Which is another reason why developers hated it.
32x sucked, and support was dropped after only a very short period in favor of the Sega Saturn, that pissed of many developers.
The Saturn was hard to program for and the PS1 was much easier and had a huge market compared to the Saturn.
No one believed in the Dreamcast when it came out, apparently not even Sega itself considering it's short lifetime.
But it WAS impressive. Soul Calibur and Shenmue were mindbending good and there were many more awesome titles.
Still compared to the PS2, which was the biggest competitor, and DVD support on the PS2, the Dreamcast would not have prevailed. As much as it pains me to admit it.
But they could have gotten a couple more good years out of the system with more development and awesome titles for it.

rooted wrote:The thing about PS1 piracy you needed a modchip, with the Dreamcast you didn't need anything.

True, and not true.
Modchip is a minor issue in my opinion, you could buy modded consoles and you could pay people to do that for you. Once you had it, you only needed to copy the CDs which could be done with each CD burner at that time.
The DreamCast on the other hand was a little bit more complicated, you could NOT copy the CDs. 1.2GB did not fit on a 650~700MB CD, that's why Echelon and Co. needed to convert the images, meaning they must been ripped through Serial port, or later broad band internet (which alone could take several days) and then videos, music, sound, textures needed to be reformated, stipped, compressed and so on, and in the end you could only use a single burning program that could handle the .cdi files for the Dreamcast, so it was still rather complicated for "beginners" to get copied CDs yet alone create them themselves.
And broadband internet was not widely available yet at that time for downloading CD image or even having sites to download them.
Giving the technology at the time, copying PS1 games was much much easier. As soon as you had a modchip and a CD burner you were ready to go.

rooted wrote:At first you needed a loader disk but then they figured out how to add self loading to them.

I liked their bootloader CD, that elk was very well animated :D

rooted wrote:But you are right, I had forgotten about the 32X and how few people actually owned a Dreamcast and minimal library compared to other systems. This had to be a large factor as well.

The Dreamcast sold fairly well, there were a lot worse consoles. In fact had Sega produced enough on the first run in 1999 they could have sold plenty more. The stores were actually empty after the first run.
Once again, bad management on Sega, they could have sold so many more.
But still over 9 Millions sold units is not "that" little, the PC Engine/TG16 sold only somewhat over 5 Millions world wide and was much logner on the market.
The library is also not that small, in fact nearly 650 games in roughly 1 1/2 years is quite impressive, the PC-Engine had the same amount of games in over 7 years.

rooted wrote:I don't think I have ever talked to anyone who knows as much or more about games as myself, it's nice.

It's fun having someone to talk about all that stuff.

But to be honest, I was always more of a PC gamer.
C64, Amiga, PC-DOS that is what I grew up with and I had hundreds of games on these platforms. Even today, I have probably around 600 games together on GoG and Steam alone, not counting the ones I have on HumbleBundle and the tons of games I have on CDs, and DVDs and Harddrives at home. I can probably account for way over 1000 PC games.
And I highly doubt anyone would bother to buy that many games for a "console".
That's the beauty of PCs, the games may be 10-30 years old, but you can still play them on your current PC. Try to put a PS2 game in your PS4 console ;)

And although I play many console games now, thanks to the ODROID, I still consider it a PC due to Linux which is running and all the emulators are just software for that "PC" that I own ;)
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:16 am

I mostly played first person shooters on PC. Counter-Strike, Firearms Mod, DoD, Half-Life, Battlefield but quit playing around the time Battlefield 2 was released. The last PC game I played was BioShock and my PC at the time struggled a bit.

On my first PC (TRS-80) I learned how to program in basic but never played games oddly enough. To tell you the truth I didn't really know it could play games, I looked at it like a learning tool.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby AreaScout » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:21 am

tzzz .... nerds ! :lol:
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:24 am

AreaScout wrote:tzzz .... nerds ! :lol:

mmmmmh nerds!
Image
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby AreaScout » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:31 pm

meveric wrote:mmmmmh nerds!
Image


hahaha :)
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:39 pm

Join in AreaScout, what are some of your favorite systems and games?
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby mad_ady » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:21 pm

Being from eastern europe I missed *all* consoles/handhelds. The ones I saw could only play tetris - so my nostalgia is elsewhere...
I had a zx spectrum clone and a couple of tapes with games. I remember playing river raid, stop the express and Bruce Lee (all of them work on the GO now).
Then I moved to DOS and have been a casual gamer - with doom, carmageddon, half-life and homeworld filling most of my time. The fondest time is when I was listening to carols for Christmas while playing doom... Even now I get a killing urge when listening to carols :D
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:27 pm

mad_ady wrote:Being from eastern europe I missed *all* consoles/handhelds. The ones I saw could only play tetris - so my nostalgia is elsewhere...

Same for me, consoles/handhelds, were not a big topic, micro-computers (C64 and Amiga) that is what I knew as a child.

mad_ady wrote:Then I moved to DOS and have been a casual gamer - with doom, carmageddon, half-life and homeworld filling most of my time.

My first OWN PC came with Windows 95, I really quickly had a bootloader on it and could choose between PC-DOS or Windows 95 with separate boot partitions, where the majority of the HDD space went into DOS. :D

mad_ady wrote:The fondest time is when I was listening to carols for Christmas while playing doom... Even now I get a killing urge when listening to carols :D

Never was into Doom, not sure why.. Quake was much better... Doom I don't know never really liked it... Duke Nukem 3D this is where I started to get into shooters :D
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby AreaScout » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:59 pm

rooted wrote:Join in AreaScout, what are some of your favorite systems and games?


Sure, first of all ... this is what a nerd is nowadays Image

In the past the word was more or like used the invective way

My first console ever our family got was a Atari 2600, all i remember was playing pong like 24h a day, I was a real master and I beat all my brothers and sisters although i was the youngest.

It took several years that I bought an console, it was the Sony PS1 and after some years an Microsoft Xbox wich is still my favorite one when it comes to homebrew. I remember being one of a few persons RUNTiME showed a new GUI for the
so called XBMP one year before release date, i was part of the team back in that days.

Before the PS1 and Xbox and after the Atari 2600 I got an Commodore 64 first with datasette later with floppy -> still my favorite home computer all the time, I am still in love with him :) After C64 there was an Amiga 500 and after that my PC time begun, i could fill a book with stories about that and interesting peoples I meet form all over the world ;)
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby mad_ady » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:01 am

My first PC was a 486SX-S which dudn't have an on-board co-processor so it couldn't run quake (it spewed the infamous - FPU not found error, which took me a few months to understand I didn't have compatible hardware). That's why I was stuck with doom. Also started with windows 3.11 which I upgraded to 95, found out it crawled on 4MB of RAM so I uninstalled it....
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:34 am

meveric wrote:
mad_ady wrote:Being from eastern europe I missed *all* consoles/handhelds. The ones I saw could only play tetris - so my nostalgia is elsewhere...

Same for me, consoles/handhelds, were not a big topic, micro-computers (C64 and Amiga) that is what I knew as a child.


Were the consoles banned or not imported?
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:17 am

"Eastern" often refers to the part that were mostly "communistic".
East Germany was a communistic country until 1989 meaning that "luxury" article were not very common and often rather expensive.
This suddenly changed in 1989 and a whole lot was available. But it was already 1989/90 means this was long past NES or SMS prime time.
Still what you got most, was exactly that, last generations consoles.
1990 people were getting SMS, NES, GameBoy and that kind of stuff, when other countries were already into Genesis and other consoles.

Also it's was a matter of price, only cause suddenly "western consoles" were available didn't mean everyone had the money to buy one, and the console alone didn't mean you had games, you had to buy them as well and they were also not "cheap".
This was rather hard to get your head around, as most people were used to have micro-computers with dozens sometimes hundreds of games.
Getting an used Sega Master System with maybe 5 games still cost you 200 bucks or more, while at the same time you could buy a used C64 and got a collection of 50~100 games with it.
Often you knew someone, a friend, or family member that got a new system (C64 -> Amiga for example) and sold their old system, so you got the old system for cheap and all the games they had collected with it.

Back then software piracy was not considered a big thing, in fact it was more the opposite, if you had a game and did not share that with your friends, you were an asshole.
"Decentralized backups" we called it ;)
If you lost your disks (or CDs later) or they broke, luckily all your friends had "security backups" of yours ;)

I had well over 100 games for the C64 and far over 200 games for the Amiga.
Why the hell would I buy a console with only a hand full of games?
In fact we got our Amiga very late in the Amiga's lifetime when it already became an outdated system and people were slowly switching to PCs instead.
Guess what that means, we got all the goodies for cheap.
We had an Amiga 500 with an HARDDRIVE in fact it was not an Amiga harddrive but a PC harddrive (SCSI if I remember correctly with several hundred MB of space).
Instead of having to switch disks you could simply start the games you want from HDD. LOTS of them. You did not have to switch between cartridges, just turn on the Amiga and select one of the 100 games that you have installed. That's it, just a double click away :)
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:29 am

Thanks for explaining, makes sense now.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby mad_ady » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 pm

The communist countries/eastern block were under embargo from the US and were unable to import anything with a microprocessor inside. This was out of fear of using microprocessors in military systems, guidance, etc.
It seems Romania fared better because it had a secret agreement with France to "smuggle" microprocessors from there. See the Third generation computers section here: https://translate.googleusercontent.com ... 1UymHtB1bw

With this, Romania had a pretty good Spectrum-like home computer market in the late 80s (got mine in the early 90s).

There was a great article I can't find anymore about computing in the late 70s. It seems that the microprocessors that were getting into the country were being used for "business" applications (assembled into computers and shipped to factories, etc), but there was a demand from university students which could not be met. So students were bribing computer factory workers to mark the processors as defective and sell them on the black market. Here, people with skills would pick them up and assemble them with home-made motherboards and package them and resell them as home computers (while not getting caught). They were building keyboards from salvaged typewriters. Interesting history in times of scarcity.

Regarding piracy - it was (and mostly still is) the norm. With hardware costing several month's wage, nobody had money for software. Even if you did, for a long time it was difficult to buy software from Romania, so most didn't bother. This helped create the mentality that piracy is ok. Why pay for it when you can copy it and is just as good?

Even today piracy is abundant in less developed countries because games are expensive compared to the standard of living.

If you earn $1000 a month over here, than you're considered rich, top 10%. A 60$ game if you make 1000$ is not the same as a 60$ game if you make 5000/10000$ a month.
So to cut down on piracy game developers should price their games based on the region they're selling it - which would lead to new problems, as people would use vpns to buy the cheaper games, etc...
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:07 pm

mad_ady wrote:If you earn $1000 a month over here, than you're considered rich, top 10%. A 60$ game if you make 1000$ is not the same as a 60$ game if you make 5000/10000$ a month.
So to cut down on piracy game developers should price their games based on the region they're selling it - which would lead to new problems, as people would use vpns to buy the cheaper games, etc...

I think several years back I read or heard about software in Russia, where games are sold at full price as in every other country when they come out, but they drop significantly (down to 10% or something like that) after several months or a year or so. Which in my opinion is actually a nice move. If you have money and really want a game as soon as it comes out, go ahead and buy it, but if you don't have that kind of money, at least give people a chance after the hype about the game is over and have a "second coming" a year later for people that can't afford a full priced game.
In the article it was stated, that piracy was nearly unknown for that reason and that the system worked really well.

And to be honest, I do the same. I buy my games on GoG or Humble bundle, as they often are 75~90% off the original price, sure some of the games are 3 years or older, but what the heck, I can wait.

As A child I bought "X Beyond the Frontier" as a full priced game for nearly 80 bucks back then, I think this was the only time as a child that I bought a full priced game on my own, due to the fact that I loved the Demo version of the game it had outstanding graphics, awesome technology (force feedback support), and impressive soundtrack and I had the money to buy it, but a couple years later the game was actually a giveaway on several Computer Magazines.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby AreaScout » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:37 pm

Austria where I am from didn't had any US embargo but computers and games at that time were anything other then cheap, Austria was geographically surrounded by eastern countries and Vienna our capital city was considered as the last border to the east therefore we always had very good mediator capabilities between east and west which lead that we have UNO, OPEC, OECD, IAEA or OSZE locations in Vienna, in the cold war there was a claim that in Vienna 'The city of spies' at any time about a minimum of 7000 secret agents and spies were deployed 8-)

At that time I had my Commodore 64 and several games and demos tried to understand and interpret what's going on in the world. I had over one hundred games for that Computer, some of my favorite games are, Jack the Nipper, Ghost'n Goblins, Indiana Jones and the last Crusade, Loom, Bomb Jack, California Games, Bubble Bobble, Kaiser

The most shocking experience I ever had on a game was on PS1 Resident Evil 2 this was more intensive compared watching Hollywood movies like Alien, Terminator or any other horror movie, it was three o'clock in the morning I was alone at home walking an empty floor inside the game, there was an one-way mirror used for interrogation in an police station i was walking by and all of a sudden a *ucking zombie was jumping out of that mirror and shattered, the zombie grasped my neck and choked me, the music and all in that moment ... I was so shocked it was so unexpected that I fall down from my couch, it took me several minutes to recover from that shocking experience.

On Xbox my favorite game was by far Halo :)

On PC I played Unreal Tournament and was member in an Italian Clan specialized in Instagib, they trained me and learned me some real useful lessons after that I was god like I had to fear myself ;), i couldn't speak Italian but somehow we managed it and it was a lot of fun, my job was so demanding that I had to stop playing, but i will never forget that time it was real fun.

RG

edit: Loom and Indiana Jones I probably played on Amiga :oops: but anyway those are the games I liked the most ( a lot are missing for Amiga )
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby mad_ady » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:25 pm

mad_ady wrote:There was a great article I can't find anymore about computing in the late 70s.


By chance I found the article - and it's in english: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11 ... -computer/
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby meveric » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:12 am

Very nice article.. I enjoyed reading it..
I lived in a communistic country (at least for a short while) as well, but it's interesting to see how others dealt with similar situations.
I was too young back then to be part of this history, and heard most of it through the experiences of my parents and grant parents, but some last outskirts of this affected my childhood as well (for example the the above mentioned lack of consoles, but having micro computers instead).
I believe I learned modesty and sense of value (not only monetary) from that era, and the way my parents raise me.
I value freedom (of choice) and dislike when others try to force something on you, or limit your freedom of choice, even if what they give you comes in a "nice package" or seems "convenient".
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby mad_ady » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:02 am

I agree, also, there's an added need to know how something works inherited from those days. Funny how communism's restricted information policies has pushed us to adopt the open-source movement which may be considered "ideal communism" - working/sharing for the greater good (https://medium.com/@diego.graziano/open ... 76334b9b10)

:)
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:45 am

mad_ady wrote:
mad_ady wrote:There was a great article I can't find anymore about computing in the late 70s.


By chance I found the article - and it's in english: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11 ... -computer/
Very interesting read, thanks for the link.

Computers in America back in the late 70s early 80s were prohibitively expensive and a very large portion of the population couldn't afford them. While not a government issue it was still an issue here as well.
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby rooted » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:47 am

mad_ady wrote:I agree, also, there's an added need to know how something works inherited from those days. Funny how communism's restricted information policies has pushed us to adopt the open-source movement which may be considered "ideal communism" - working/sharing for the greater good (https://medium.com/@diego.graziano/open ... 76334b9b10)

:)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_libre
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Re: Game Nostalgia

Unread postby demian » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:22 am

mad_ady wrote:
mad_ady wrote:There was a great article I can't find anymore about computing in the late 70s.


By chance I found the article - and it's in english: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/11 ... -computer/

Thanks for the read!
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