Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby alpha_one_x86 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:43 pm

meveric wrote:
fractal wrote:But some are some SoCs aimed at Set top boxes. I should think a PVR would need some cheap, bulk storage.

I wouldn't call a m-sata device a "cheap" bulk data. Even a crappy 5400 rpm HDD has at least 30 MiB/sec that's 240Mbit data stream, I know of no movie that uses such high data stream, normal blurays only have 54 Mbit/sec at most. So having a m-sata solution is not only very expensive but also very over dimentioned for the speed requirements.
And if I really have a PVR device, I would rather have 2TB of cheap storage to store tons of shows, than 128 GB of very fast expensive storage ;)

3D XPoint have potential to be 10x cheap than SSD, HDD is correct for this hardware due 1000Mbps ethernet limitation. But no native SATA port, it's why I keep my cubieboard on Allwinner A20.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby streetboy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:08 pm

Is the RK3399 is much faster than Exynos-5422?
Is there any performance comparison of following items?
4xA15(2Ghz) vs 2xA72(2Ghz)
Mali-T628MP6(600Mhz) vs Mali-T860MP4(600Mhz)

I think RK3399 is not so faster than 5422. But I am not sure.
Single task oriented application should be much faster on RK3399 probably.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby vbextreme » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:11 pm

Without the A72 I would not take into account even the card.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby meveric » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:25 pm

As we can clearly see in the graph, only the cortex A72 can inflate up to 7 baloons simultaneously and is therefore obviously the better hardware
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:35 pm

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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby vbextreme » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:44 pm

firefly rk3399 ~75000 antutu Benchmark
Odroid xu4 ~55000 antutu Benchmark

Rk it has many interfaces, usb 3, dual monitors, pcie, etc.
exactly odroid model that I would like to buy, at any price
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby meveric » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:59 pm

yep the RockChip boards look pretty decent from what I've seen and they have VDPAU support, means you can play movies hardware accelerated directly on desktop.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby vbextreme » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:45 pm

ODROID once replaced the xu4 chip with a 64bit do not think I should do other big changes for this range of board.
Lacking however two areas, low cost and big.
And so I have to buy vocore2, orange pi zero and evaluate the purchase of a firefly
I continue to do what I did last year, await.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby armandob » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:26 pm

Hi all,
no rumors about release date and platform of new XU5 ?
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Fred From France » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:42 am

armandob wrote:Hi all,
no rumors about release date and platform of new XU5 ?


Please, this message is aging for more a less one month w/o respond to this question, hardKernel, it is our month (MWC), please share information!
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby meveric » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:58 am

It's not even confirmed there will be an "XU5" how can there be a release date or anything?
And as it was said numerous times before. HardKernel never disclosed informations about future boards.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby memeka » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:36 am

They should call it XU6 just such that there's no XU5 :))
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Rishabh » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:50 pm

I only have one request for the XU5, whenever it may be released. 4K 10-bit HEVC Hardware decoding @ 60fps, honestly even 1080p@60fps HEVC will be fine. I don't think this is a wild request because according to this post, Best HEVC x265 decoder. C2, XU4?, ODROID-C2 supports 4K HEVC Decoding @ 60fps. I want this feature on the XU5 because currently I'm using a Raspberry Pi 3 as an all-in-one OSMC media center + Print and Scan server + NAS Drive + Seedbox, with Couchpotato and Sonarr, it works fine but cannot play 1080p HEVC and its NAS transfer speed is pretty damn slow. I could buy the C2 but it doesn't have USB 3.0 so would probably have similar NAS Transfer speeds. So, pretty please.

Or ...
you could add USB 3.0 support on C3 :mrgreen:.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mad_ady » Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:23 pm

Actually, the C2 will be a much better nas than RPI, because the C2 has gigabit ethernet decoupled from the USB bus. This means you should get up to 40MB/s over usb2.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:45 pm

Rishabh wrote:...media center...NAS...

get a C2, a XU4, and upgrade to all in one later.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mad_ady » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:53 pm

Regarding USB performance as a NAS, on the C2 - I ran a small benchmark and I can get 34MB/s read speed from a disk attacked to a C2 over NFS, which is not bad, considering its USB bus is also shared with a USB sound card and a web cam. I'm actually considering giving up on my XU4 as a NAS because the USB3 ports cause all sorts of problems and I get random disconnects. I need to investigate this further. Anyway, my wish for the next XU is - more stable USB3 ports :D
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby memeka » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:38 pm

@mad_ady - xu4 usb3 random disconnects also with the 4.9 kernel?
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mad_ady » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:30 pm

Unfortunatelly yes - both the network adapter and disks (independently): viewtopic.php?t=26121
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby memeka » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:38 am

Even if I think it will never happen (because of $), a very nice SoC looks to be iMX8 QuadMax

* 4xA53@1.2Ghz + 2xA72@1.8Ghz
* 2x Cortex-M4F realtime
* (probably 4GB RAM) LPDDR4
* 1xSATA3
* 2xPCIe 3.0 - this is the first one I see with PCIe3.0, which has >900MB/lane (PCIe 2.0 has 500MB/lane)
* h265 HDR, h264, HDMI 2.0, ...
* vivante GPU - it's not clear if it's Vivante7000 @ 64 GFlops, or Vivante7200 (2xVivante7000) @ 128 GFlops. For reference, C2 mali is ~40 GFlops, XU4 mali is ~100 GFlops, RK3399 mali is ~80GFlops
* 2xGB Ethernet
* USB3.0

I would expect the price to be on the high side, probably a cheaper variant is RK3399 which is very similar (except PCIe is 2.1, 1x GB eth, no native SATA, prb over PCIe, slower mali but HK already has mali licensed).

Btw, there's also a iMX8M, which looks like a good upgrade for a future C3:

* similar 4xA53 cores
* similar * h265 HDR, h264, HDMI 2.0, ...
* similar performance ~32GFlops Vivante GPU
* similar 1GB ethernet
but extra you got:
* RTC
* SPI
* 2xUSB3.0
* 2xPCIe 2.0 1lane

which is exactly what one would want from a C3: a C2 with USB3.0 and SATA over PCIe. I think you can put up to 4 SATA with ~250MB/s bandwidth, and up to 8 SATA with >100MB/s bandwidth (for GB NAS).
But again, the cost would be like the XU4 not like the C2 :)
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:50 am

memeka wrote:Btw, there's also a iMX8M, which looks like a good upgrade for a future C3:

I still don't think it should be called "C*". There are plenty of other letters in the alphabet to choose from... With the exception of "i" which either Intel or Apple (or both) will sue. :lol:

Another issue with "C*" is the GPIO connector. We can have all these wonderful new hardware capabilities, but they will be useless if there is no connection to expose them for use. So I think if a new SoC is going to be introduced, it should have both a new letter and a new connector.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby rooted » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:05 am

memeka wrote:But again, the cost would be like the XU4 not like the C2 :)


The difference is only $10 USD now.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Rishabh » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:23 pm

mad_ady wrote:Actually, the C2 will be a much better nas than RPI, because the C2 has gigabit ethernet decoupled from the USB bus. This means you should get up to 40MB/s over usb2.


I do know that but ODROUD-C2 was unavailable, has been for quite some time. I simply bought RPi 3 because it was available
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mad_ady » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:00 am

I understand, but the C1+ would still make a better NAS than RPI3 for the same reasons, though it's slower and has less ram than the C2
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:53 pm

Since it has not been mentioned before:
Pleas do NOT add a VGA port to what ever new board(s) is (are) coming out. :o

I keep seeing new boards with VGA ports, and it puzzles me where people are still finding/using VGA monitors. Lets just let VGA join its friend the 3.5" floppy disk in the tech grave yard.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby gseaman » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:57 pm

I agree about no vga, but both of the computers in my house have perfectly good, 1600x900 20" monitors with vga and dvi, no hdmi. I have to use an adaptor, except when attached to my television. :)
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Fred From France » Sun May 21, 2017 11:43 pm

April 2017 of Odroid magazine is preparing us to major events: go to page 49...


What is coming up next for Hardkernel and ODROID in 2017?In 2017, we are planning another 64-bit ARM platform and a 64-bit X86 platform, and we are also considering an upgraded version of XU4
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Umbreon » Tue May 23, 2017 3:48 am

I think Hardkernel should stay in ARM world. 64-bit ARM SOCs are mature now. I don't understand why they will produce a UFO board. About the upgrade of the XU4, I think it's a bad idea : XU4 is already an upgrade from the XU3. Sadly, this upgrade hasn't all features of the XU3. Ok the price has fallen considerably but I don't see the interest of the new version.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby hugolp » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:09 am

What? There is strong interest on the next xu device, this thread is proof. The xu4 is an old CPU now and its limitations show.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:25 pm

Fred From France wrote:April 2017 of Odroid magazine is preparing us to major events: go to page 49...


What is coming up next for Hardkernel and ODROID in 2017?In 2017, we are planning another 64-bit ARM platform and a 64-bit X86 platform, and we are also considering an upgraded version of XU4



The Intel Atom x7-Z8700 (used in the $99 LattePanda and $89 Up1) would be nice because it has usb3 and hardware accelerated encryption (XU4 travels at USB2 speed without it). And it has 4K @ 60 fps.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Fred From France » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:42 am

elatllat wrote:
Fred From France wrote:April 2017 of Odroid magazine is preparing us to major events: go to page 49...


What is coming up next for Hardkernel and ODROID in 2017?In 2017, we are planning another 64-bit ARM platform and a 64-bit X86 platform, and we are also considering an upgraded version of XU4



The Intel Atom x7-Z8700 (used in the $99 LattePanda and $89 Up1) would be nice because it has usb3 and hardware accelerated encryption (XU4 travels at USB2 speed without it). And it has 4K @ 60 fps.

Legacy lattepanda website notice atom x5 and w10 os...
Please share a link with Linux and atom x7 cpu series.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:42 am

Fred From France wrote:...x5...x7 cpu series.

sorry; I typed the wrong numbers there, but the point remains that it would be nice if the aes-xts 512b benchmark on the next odroid matched or exceed USB3 speed.
Code: Select all
MiB/s,   Product
   9.7,  RPI 1
  22.5,  RPI 3
  60.0,  USB2 ===
  68.7,  XU4
 221.2,  UP1
 625.0,  USB3 ===
 666.1,  UP2 (N4200)
 826.1,  rackspace (E5-2670)
1366.7,  EC2 (E5-2676)
1393.7,  old i5 (2500S)
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:45 pm

elatllat wrote:60.0, USB2 ===

60.0MiB/s = 60.0 * 8 Mbps = 480Mbs = USB theoretical maximum bandwidth. In real life, its more like 36MiB/s. ;)

I find the encryption discussion interesting because hardware DMA crypto is supposed to be insanely faster than CPU based AES, but people keep asking for CPU crypto. In ARMs presentation of CPU crypto, they noted it was not intended to compete/replace a hardware crypto engine which should be present on XU4 (i have not verified).

On a related note, I finally looked at the RK3399 datasheet, and I liked what I saw! According to the datasheet (I have not verified), it does have the ARM CPU AES crypto extension, but it also has hardware DMA crypto. All the major components also have dedicated MMUs. This is required for "zero-copy" operation of things like video/graphics. It also has a 2D accelerator (RGA with MMU) similar to G2D on XU4 making an accelerated X11 driver a possibility.

As with most other vendors, the Linux development on it appears to be a bit in disarray. There does not seem to be much centralized progress with everyone maintaining their own code tree like in the very early ARM days. With a little love, attention, and vendor participation, it could be whipped into shape much like we did for XU4 kernel 4.9.y. Everything I have seen on paper indicated it would be a worthy successor to XU4 (with a different model number), and it gets my vote for a future Odroid board (until something better comes along).
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby meveric » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:24 pm

I also think RockChip is a decent competitor on the ARM market. They also have VDPAU drivers that allow you to use desktop applications to watch movies hardware accelerated.

Only thing I found with the RockChip up to now, is a really bad structured Kernel. The Kernels I've seen for RockChip were all monolithic, means, everything is build-in no modules at all.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:11 pm

crashoverride wrote:...DMA crypto...

Is not on the block diagram, and is useless if Samsung won't tell people how to use it, or even if it exists, and keep the SoC data sheets not public.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:35 pm

The XU3/4 crypto (AES) driver is here:
https://github.com/hardkernel/linux/blob/odroidxu4-4.9.y/drivers/crypto/s5p-sss.c

It is enabled in the 4.9.y kernel:
Code: Select all
$ dmesg | grep "s5p-secss"
[    2.690708] s5p-secss 10830000.sss:: s5p-sss driver registered


Some performance info here:
https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/9149113/
Code: Select all
Currently the s5p-secss driver supports AES in CBC and ECB modes.
However its usefulness could be doubted. Excerpt of tests on Odroid XU3
(Exynos5422), for 256 bit key, encryption, performance CPU freq governor:

  algorithm        | block size [b] | average speed [MB/s] |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |             16 |                 11.5 |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |             64 |                 25.4 |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |            256 |                 41.0 |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |           1024 |                 47.4 |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |           8192 |                 49.0 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |             16 |                  0.4 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |             64 |                  1.8 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |            256 |                  6.6 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |           1024 |                 25.2 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |           8192 |                 83.1 |
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:59 pm

crashoverride wrote:The XU3/4 crypto (AES) driver is here:
https://github.com/hardkernel/linux/blob/odroidxu4-4.9.y/drivers/crypto/s5p-sss.c

It is enabled in the 4.9.y kernel:
Code: Select all
$ dmesg | grep "s5p-secss"
[    2.690708] s5p-secss 10830000.sss:: s5p-sss driver registered


Some performance info here:
https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/9149113/
Code: Select all
Currently the s5p-secss driver supports AES in CBC and ECB modes.
However its usefulness could be doubted. Excerpt of tests on Odroid XU3
(Exynos5422), for 256 bit key, encryption, performance CPU freq governor:

  algorithm        | block size [b] | average speed [MB/s] |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |             16 |                 11.5 |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |             64 |                 25.4 |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |            256 |                 41.0 |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |           1024 |                 47.4 |
  cbc-aes-s5p      |           8192 |                 49.0 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |             16 |                  0.4 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |             64 |                  1.8 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |            256 |                  6.6 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |           1024 |                 25.2 |
  cbc(aes-generic) |           8192 |                 83.1 |


Well as it's already enabled, and cryptsetup is getting more (67.5 MiB/s) for "aes-cbc 256b" than what you quote (41.0 MB/s), It's clearly not fast enough to make use of USB3 speeds on the XU4. (which is why some covet the Intel AES speeds)

Thanks for looking into that crashoverride.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:53 pm

elatllat wrote:It's clearly not fast enough to make use of USB3 speeds on the XU4.

It would be interesting if someone would disable the driver (set the device tree node status to "disabled") and post AES benchmark comparisons both with (hardware) and without (CPU) the driver.

[edit]
There is likely a way to use the CPU without disabling the driver, but I do not know how.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:50 pm

Doing further research into RK3399, I think a list of "dont's" is also warranted as part of the list:

1) Don't make up new standards for connectors. The firefly board has a M2 (NGFF) connector and a mini-PCIe connector. After reviewing the schematic and forum posts, both are "fake". The M2 connector does not have SATA despite being keyed for it (B-Key) so most SSDs will not work in it. The mini-PCIe connector only has USB connected with everything else NC (no PCIe lanes at all).

2) Don't forget these are developers boards. The firefly board does not have a 'boot mode' selector while eMMC is soldered on board. This means that if you "brick" it during development, you need to short two eMMC test points on the board to be able to boot. The socketed eMMC in Odroid is preferred so that it can be removed and re-flashed in addition to providing capacity flexibility.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:45 pm

3) no hard wired LEDs (it should be possible to disable all from software)

4) no fan (a 100mm long heat sync would be preferable, or at least an option for those that don't care for the slim option)

5) no underused or cheap obsolete standards (if there is 4k out, offer a 4k screen. the market is flooded with hdmi 1.x usb 2 keep the focus on usb 3.1 etc)

6) no extra ports/features (most any port/feature can be added on the Universal Serial Buss; sata, rtc, pmu, gpio, dvi, eth, wifi, gpu, etc) on chip gpio is often the wrong V or A or not isolated anyway. M.2 is the way to go for storage if booting from usb 3.1 is to challenging. (I'm sure some will want an all in one but I prefer the Unix philosophy of modularity)

... those "don'ts" are starting to look like the flip side of the other requests ...

Anyway as long as HK is offering the high end of cheap SBCs with good software support it will keep its user base. If it wants more of the RPI user base that's purely a marketing challenge.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:16 pm

elatllat wrote:3) no hard wired LEDs (it should be possible to disable all from software)

As developer boards, the LEDs are well justified. Its a lot simpler to place a piece of black electrical tape over any LEDs than it is to solder on a diagnostic LED.

elatllat wrote:4) no fan (a 100mm long heat sync would be preferable, or at least an option for those that don't care for the slim option)

Like I stated before, if it needs a fan then give it one. It would be a shame to purchase a $100+ device only to have it perform like a $40 device due to thermal throttling. Since this the "XU5" discussion and high performance is implied, I believe it is more likely to need a fan than not.

elatllat wrote:6) no extra ports/features

I can certainly do without VGA, SPDIF, composite video, and microphone/headphone connectors. I also do not want WiFi/BT built on. However, since almost all new SoCs have PCI lanes, there needs to be some connector to utilize them. I rarely use any GPIO, but it makes the product far less desirable to makers/hobbiest/VARs if removed.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:26 pm

crashoverride wrote:...

yah LEDs and fans are helpful, I'm just saying the don't force them on us, make them optional. There is no led that can't be disabled, and no fan that can't have a sufficiently large heat sync replace it... how useful was the XU4 GPIO really? For me it was pointless, sure there was the shiftier shield but it's amperage was to low so the USB GPIO was the better option.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:47 pm

elatllat wrote:how useful was the XU4 GPIO really?

Well... After reviewing RK3399, I like the cheap accessories they can offer because it has GPIO, MIPI DSI/CSI, and eDP connectors. There are those out there that want a board they can combine with some custom hardware to sell as a product (VAR/IHV). These are the bulk sales customers that are desirable to a company. So there is a balancing act to include enough things to make the board appeal to the most customers while keeping it cheap enough to appeal to the masses. This is where innovation is required.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby cyBerManIA » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:25 am

Hello guys,

I am following these topics for a new board for a long time. :)
Has anyone seen i.MX8 from Freescale/NXP?

They are in preproduction phase right now and they look very promising.

Block Diagram image
i.MX8 Details page
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:50 am

Inspired by RK3399 USB-C, I had an idea...

USB-C turns out to be pretty worthless on an ARM board. There is no battery to charge and USB-C power supplies are expensive, so even using it to power the board is not desirable. To use the port with "normal" USB3 devices, you need a hub or adapter that also adds significant expense. So what good is USB-C? The RK3399 uses it to also supply a DisplayPort signal.

The idea I had is that a theoretical XU4+ could do the same. There is a DisplayPort signal that was present on XU3 (full) that is unused on XU3 Lite/XU4. With a support chip [1], a USB3 port could be combined with the DisplayPort signal and supplied to a USB-C connector. This redesign would offer further advantage if the current USB3 Network chip was upgraded to a Network+Hub chip. Then we could have 4 USB3 ports (with network) connected to one USB3 host port and the other USB3 host port could go the the USB-C+DisplayPort connector.

Since USB-C is still very confusing. HardKernel should also offer a USB-C Hub+DisplayPort connector accessory that is tested to work.

[1] http://www.analogix.com/en/system/files/AA-002343-PB-3-ANX7418_Product_Brief_0.pdf
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby memeka » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:24 pm

so what would be the advantage of having USB-C on a XU4+? Like you said ... it's pretty worthless...
cause i can see the increased cost, and losing a USB3 host, and sharing gb network with other USB ports.... => more expensive, slower network, slower USB3 ...
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:35 pm

memeka wrote:i can see the increased cost

I did not do a cost analysis to see if it was economically viable, I will leave that HK.

memeka wrote:losing a USB3 host, and sharing gb network with other USB ports

It really depends on how you use the board. For me, the GB eth is mostly idle. So it already "wastes" the port. When GB eth is active, there is still theoretical 4GB of "wasted" bandwidth because the dedicated network can not saturate the host port. That was the reason for me mentioning elsewhere that I prefer the "shared" port be with network + hub.

I envision a XU4+ being in the C2 form factor. Where the C2 currently has 4 USB2 ports, XU4+ would have 4 USB3 ports. Where the C2 has USB OTG, the XU4+ would have USB-C with DisplayPort. Since it would still retain HDMI, its not really a loss if you only connect a "dumb" USB-C hub to it. When used with a DisplayPort capable cable/hub, you get higher resolution (greater than 1080p) and dual display concurrent with HDMI.

This is just an idea I presented for discussion. I make no guarantee that it is a financially sound proposal. It may be too expensive to be worth it.

[edit]
Using USB-C would also "give back" USB3-OTG functionality that XU3 had but XU4 removed.

[edit2]
More theoretical musings:
In the case of a NAS, the XU4 can not transfer to/from HDD any faster than the network. Even on a shared USB3 host, 1Gbs Ethernet + 1Gbs HDD = 2 Gbs = less than half of the host bandwidth of 5Gpbs.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mad_ady » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:03 pm

I think the USB3 controller's top speed is just 1.5Gbps, not 5. One thing I didn't like about the XU3's display port is that it didn't support adapters - it would only work with display-port monitors - and I have none of those...
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:16 pm

The USB3 standard mandates a minimum of 5Gpbs. There is no 1.5Gpbs link speed. Whether you can get data in/out of the controller at 5Gbs remains to be seen. I have no method of testing 5Gbs transfer rates since everything tops out much lower. If the SoC itself is the bottleneck (DRAM bandwidth, internal bus, etc), then it does not matter whether you use one or two host ports since you will get the same overall performance.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:56 pm

Following in the USB-C train of thought, perhaps a future Odroid board should have Thunderbolt 3.

All the new SoCs now have PCIe lanes and it would be nice to use them. Currently, I see them "single purposed" for M.2 storage. In addition to limiting options, the M.2 also requires board space layout. If a Thunderbolt 3 connector is used instead, it opens the possibility to more scenarios. Any PCIe device could be used with an adapter (even PC GPUs). It also gets past the power requirement issues that would occur if a PCIe slot was used.

The Intel DSL6340 Thunderbolt 3 controller adds $8.00 to the BOM of the board.
https://ark.intel.com/products/87401/Intel-DSL6340-Thunderbolt-3-Controller

I think in addition to offering a wider variety of uses, the Thunderbolt 3 controller would distinguish a future Odroid from all the "something pi" boards. Using a System-on-module (SOM) design, would allow for the choice of "base board" that had the controller or the more limited M.2 slot.

Thoughts?
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