New Handheld suggestion

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KiddleStone
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New Handheld suggestion

Post by KiddleStone »

### Yes Worldwide shortages are going to last ages ###

I suggest a new line of products, to build on Hardkernal existing technical experience.

Hardkernal should design a battery/mains powered S922X system on a module. The module can be used to build a gaming Handheld, Tablet with keyboard or a Laptop.

S922X N2+ already has existing Linux, Android, EmuELEC support. By including USB ports on portable designs, users can provide and use their own WiFi, Bluetooth micro dongle.

Design should allow mains powered use of product, while charging battery in background.

Funding to be by onsite forum Crowd funding.

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Re: New Handheld suggestion

Post by KiddleStone »

Amlogic handheld games console ๐Ÿ˜€

https://androidpctv.com/powkiddy-a20/

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mctom
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Re: New Handheld suggestion

Post by mctom »

I think I had a similar vision, to provide excellent N2+ internals in a bare minimum factor, but I think the consensus was that it's not going to be much cheaper to produce, consumers would have to typically pay more to get anything done, and there's barely any market for stuff that is not ready to work with.
Personally, if there was anything like that I'd be more than happy to design a PCB for clustering 4 of these puppies on a single PCB and fit it to 19" rack.

Something like Pi Compute Module. There is a good reason why only RPF pulled this off, I guess, and didn't update that product as often as their flagship line.
Lemaker made an attempt in something similar but giving that they never continued it, that must have been a disaster.

Heck, I believe we could be able to design such a thing ourselves (as a community) with N2+ schematics and a sprinkle of Hardkernel's blessing, but how on earth would we source components and assembly service in reasonable quantities? Not to mention shady certification status.
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Re: New Handheld suggestion

Post by KiddleStone »

We don't ๐Ÿ˜€

Competition will do the work !

Here are details of Rock3 / CM3

https://wiki.radxa.com/Rock3/CM3

If you want to prototype a Tablet, Handheld, Smartphone or Laptop, then use a Khadas Vim3L else use the Khadas3.

Want a stacked Cluster, use the N2+

The secret source, is good software support and hardware details, at programming level knowledge, made available to all. IMO.

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Re: New Handheld suggestion

Post by crashoverride »

While it may or may not have been the intent, the only thing "compute modules" have brought to the table is another "middle man" to pay fees to. I have yet to see anything achieve a cost reduction.

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Re: New Handheld suggestion

Post by mctom »

KiddleStone wrote: โ†‘
Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:52 am
Competition will do the work !

Here are details of Rock3 / CM3

https://wiki.radxa.com/Rock3/CM3
Rockchip RK3566, Quad core Cortex-A55 (ARM v8) 64-bit SoC @ 2.0GHz
That's more comparable to RasPi3 than 4, A55 cores presented themselves very poorly in benchmarks. Adequate for battery operated devices though.

Same goes for Khadas Vim3L, actually. Going into models with at least comparable performance to N2+, the price is twice as high, at least in this part of the world.

Still, I fail to see anything resembling an actual compute module other than Raspberry's CMs. What I mean by that is a bare minimum module with CPU, RAM and board-to-board socket. I can't see any competition for that, probably because the market for such devices is also very small.

For clustering, I did tests for a few SBCs on the market and sadly the "best value" option is a stack of RasPi4s, especially when their prices will drop in favor of Pi 5 which probably will emerge somewhere around next year. The second bext option are XU4s, but this involves hunting for used units.
crashoverride wrote: โ†‘
Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:46 am
While it may or may not have been the intent, the only thing "compute modules" have brought to the table is another "middle man" to pay fees to. I have yet to see anything achieve a cost reduction.
I think the intent was to reduce size, and target customers who really don't want to certify wireless connectivity of a CNC machine - imagine shipping that anywhere for tests. Sure, they might as well put a common RasPi4 instead, but CMs also come with built in eMMC, are smaller, slightly cheaper, and far easier to replace.
Surely there is a market for these gizmos if they did develop a new generation of these things. That is certainly not a hobbyist market though.

For us, little makers of stuff, sure, the cheapest option to build a tablet is to buy a tablet. Everything premade will always be cheaper, and that also includes SBCs with connectors on board, rather than a separate carrier board.
But if I got serious about designing a new motherboard for my netbook, I'd definitely prefer a compute module, and designing a motherboard for it with nothing more than a few connectors and voltage converters. That would be very convenient, but then again, the only option to do so is Pi4CM for now.
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Re: New Handheld suggestion

Post by KiddleStone »

The CM are for custom devices or prototypes, ability to possible upgrade CM in later product life ( if the connection type is not thrown out the window on next iterations of core hardware ) not really cheaper single boards. The RPI A72 is crippled and with slow memory, slow GPU. So it comes down to use.

The RK3566 is way faster than the RPI3, also the RK3566 GPU is more capable than the RPI4 GPU. The RK3566 runs at 1.8Ghz as standard not as over clocked. The RPI4 has more mature software for some uses, but can only run pretend Android ( skinned Linux ) badly.
Last edited by KiddleStone on Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: New Handheld suggestion

Post by KiddleStone »

On handheld this might get built

Detailed specifications of powkiddyX18S:

https://powkiddy.com/blogs/news/detaile ... wkiddyx18s

System:Android 11
LCD:5.5 inch(720*1280)IPS MIPI Interface

TP:G+FF,COF 5 p.m

Battery capacity:5000mAh
Headset specifications:3.5mm
Charging interface:TYPE-C
CPU:T618 (8-core 64-bit Dual-core ARM รข CortexTM-A75 processor, up to 2.0GHz SIX--core ARM รข CortexTM-A55 processor, up to 2.0GHz

GPU๏ผšMali G52
RAM:4GB
ROM:64GB
TF card:Maximum support 512GB
WIFI:IEEE 802.11 ac/ab/g/n 2.4G/5G dual mode

See link for more

And SoC benchmark https://www.notebookcheck.net/UNISOC-Ti ... 251.0.html

On handheld again, expect game play around this level, as this tablet uses the same SoC,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB3rt3MThXc


Will we ever see a N2+ inspired A311D handheld/ Tablet / Laptop , who knows, depends on demand ๐Ÿ˜€. You don' need a CM to just prototype, use N2+ for mains use and Vim3L, Vim3 for LCD, Mipi, battery use. Each have some software support, work. I doubt UniSoC ( main company in financial trouble ) has open software of any sort of level, for their SoC.

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Re: New Handheld suggestion

Post by mctom »

Meh, I guess my findings are different because I have vastly different demands.
For my purposes all I need is a sheer CPU power, crunching numbers and stuff. I don't need GPU, storage, even RAM performance isn't nearly as important.
But yeah, for multimedia stuff I imagine there are better and worse choices out there, I just don't seem to care. But I do realize that most "makers" tend to focus on Android toys for whatever reason.

Anyway, using RasPi CM for prototyping is a terrible idea. That's exactly what this is NOT for.
Comparing clock frequencies across different architectures - not a good idea either. Especially A55 vs A72, where the latter's capability in Dhrystone is almost double.
Software compatibility is the same everywhere. If something is not in the repo, you build it yourself.
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Re: New Handheld suggestion

Post by KiddleStone »

How do you find the NPU and AES performance on the child/adult education board RPI 4 ?

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