Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Fred From France » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:23 pm

elatllat wrote:The ROCK64 is looking nice so I hope odroid will do something to prevent the 2 WIPs from being underwhelming.

This post was first created few days before 2015 Christmas. ..
Except a passive heatseek introduced with Q version. Hardkernel devs dedicated to XU platforms seem to be into a frozen period.

Shall we have to create a post to vintage classified architectures with XU4 as main target?
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:51 am

I agree that HardKernel should post some updated information about their product road map. At the least, I would like to know what SoC is used and which quarter it should be expected (4Q2017 ?).

The XU4 and C2 were revolutionary. The XU4 was one of the first boards to offer 8 cores and USB3. The C2 was one of the first boards to offer 64bit and 4K. However, this generation of SoC are evolutionary. There is nothing ground breaking about any of them. They are simply small improvements over what we currently have. For this reason, we can already speculate what will be offered, and I believe the need for secrecy is more diminished than it was in the past. My concerns are more about having information to guide my decisions that I am making today for what I will be doing in the near future. I can not align my plans with a vendor unless I know something about the vendor's plans. ;)
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby hugolp » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:49 pm

crashoverride indeed. Plus mobile Ryzen APU's are also coming late this year and they could nicely compete with some ARM segments depending on power consumption.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby odroid » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:18 pm

I agree too.
We will release our road map within 2~3 weeks. ;)
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Fred From France » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:42 am

odroid wrote:I agree too.
We will release our road map within 2~3 weeks. ;)


Here we use to say: "promises only bind those who believe in them".
so let see!
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby hugolp » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:18 am

Using libreboot or having libreboot compatibility for the xu5.

I know at least one rockchip ARM soc that uses coreboot/libreboot, so it would be great if Hard kernel could look into using or at least having compatibiliylty with libreboot for its devices.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Fred From France » Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:55 am

hugolp wrote:Using libreboot or having libreboot compatibility for the xu5.

I know at least one rockchip ARM soc that uses coreboot/libreboot, so it would be great if Hard kernel could look into using or at least having compatibiliylty with libreboot for its devices.

regarding actual upgrade period (how long to get the Q release that is a passive heatsink), it shouldn't be for next decade...
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby indium » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:33 am

hugolp wrote:Using libreboot or having libreboot compatibility for the xu5.

I know at least one rockchip ARM soc that uses coreboot/libreboot, so it would be great if Hard kernel could look into using or at least having compatibiliylty with libreboot for its devices.

you are advertising this thing extensively. i understand it, you have gotten a task, and work hard. but tell me why a serious hardware vendor should align with such a moronic thing. why ordinary users, normal ones, not FSF-brain washed should care about it? "having libreboot compatibility". what on this planet, should this mean? should HK make some ritual of consecration to become "libreboot compatible"? Eat Stallman's toe cheese? :lol:
according to wikipedia, these guys smoke a very strong weed:
According to its own documentation, it can work with any Linux distribution that uses kernel mode setting (KMS) for the graphics, while Windows is not supported and its use is discouraged by Libreboot. Support for BSD is largely untested, with some successful reports while booting OpenBSD and NetBSD.

whoa? who the hell they think they are? Nirvana? :lol: they "discourage" me? you f&&ing idiots do decide what you are doing - writing firmware or giving shitty advices noone asks. I can't stand that impudence. having zero useful featues to propose (at least to say, because it smells that dealing with their shit is a whole PITA for those unfortunate, believed their fairy tales about "libre" shit), only those fanatic bullshit, bald spam-like promotion and ovearall arrogance, they are really sick there? c'mon, man.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby hugolp » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:04 pm

indium wrote:you are advertising this thing extensively. i understand it, you have gotten a task, and work hard. but tell me why a serious hardware vendor should align with such a moronic thing. why ordinary users, normal ones, not FSF-brain washed should care about it? "having libreboot compatibility". what on this planet, should this mean? should HK make some ritual of consecration to become "libreboot compatible"? Eat Stallman's toe cheese? :lol:


Are you feeling ok?
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mad_ady » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:25 pm

I've just seen a talk about coreboot - an open source BIOS replacement for Intel platforms and they state the reasons why "firmware" should not be trusted: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8314-bootst ... #video&t=8
Near the end there's a question about ARM platforms (around 35:40) and the guy states that since ARM platforms don't have all of BIOS's legacy code they have a smaller attack surface and are safer, implying that there's no real need to implement something "libre" (there's a chain of trust from the moment of boot, bootloader load/initialization, OS load).

The problem with Intel platforms and BIOS/UEFI is that they may execute code from Option ROMS from various subsystems (like network, dongles) which can lead to serious attacks: https://trmm.net/Thunderstrike
Also, Intel platforms have broken management which can control anything your computer does (inject/receive packets on the network, record/inject keystrokes, etc).
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby hugolp » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:39 pm

mad_ady wrote:I've just seen a talk about coreboot - an open source BIOS replacement for Intel platforms and they state the reasons why "firmware" should not be trusted: https://media.ccc.de/v/33c3-8314-bootst ... #video&t=8
Near the end there's a question about ARM platforms (around 35:40) and the guy states that since ARM platforms don't have all of BIOS's legacy code they have a smaller attack surface and are safer, implying that there's no real need to implement something "libre" (there's a chain of trust from the moment of boot, bootloader load/initialization, OS load).

The problem with Intel platforms and BIOS/UEFI is that they may execute code from Option ROMS from various subsystems (like network, dongles) which can lead to serious attacks: https://trmm.net/Thunderstrike
Also, Intel platforms have broken management which can control anything your computer does (inject/receive packets on the network, record/inject keystrokes, etc).


Yes, Intel BIOS/UEFI are all kind of fucked up and ARM equivalents are not so bad, but it is always good to not have to trust the company and have an open source firmware.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mad_ady » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:44 pm

I'm guessing that's rather impossible with SBCs, mostly because you no longer have physical access to all chips, since they are all sandwiched together and use BGA so you can't intercept pins easily. Maybe you could do it with jtag - override the CPU during boot and inject your own instructions, but it's cumbersome. But I do agree, it's a noble attempt, and somebody should pursue it - but it should come from the vendors.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby hugolp » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:06 pm

mad_ady wrote:I'm guessing that's rather impossible with SBCs, mostly because you no longer have physical access to all chips, since they are all sandwiched together and use BGA so you can't intercept pins easily. Maybe you could do it with jtag - override the CPU during boot and inject your own instructions, but it's cumbersome. But I do agree, it's a noble attempt, and somebody should pursue it - but it should come from the vendors.


I own a Chromebook C201 and I have flashed libreboot on it. You can do it using jtag, but I did not have to (I would not know how to, nor do I have the cable). I could flash the firmware using software. I had to mingle with the hardware to remove a screw that blocks the firmware from being modified and adding the screw back once libreboot was installed and tested. So I am guessing the same could theoretically be possible with other chipsets. The C201 uses an ARM Rockchip SoC. The advantage is that it uses Coreboot as its firmaware, so creating an open source version was relatively simple.

I agree that it should come from the vendors and SoC developers. But you have to start somewhere, if clients do not ask for it, vendors might not even know we are interested. And it should not be a big deal for vendors really. I bet a lot of them use Coreboot already like Rockchip.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Fred From France » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:41 am

To come back to next evolution that's aging for years, competitors deliver new sbc that are interesting :
http://www.cnx-software.com/2017/07/02/the-first-amlogic-s912-development-board-is-coming-soon-with-khadas-vim2/
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby tchiwam » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:39 pm

The 3GB of ram is interesting, the rest including the 4 cores is a bit less...
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