3D Printer thread anybody?

[L67GS]

With the M1 and N2L available it's finally time for me to get more immersed in robotics so I've decided to try to expand my electronics lab into something more resembling a robotics lab in 2023. I see there are a number of people on the forum with printers so maybe we can pull off a thread dedicated to the function and upgrade of 3D printers?

For starters I'd like to set up the 3D printer itself, mainly because the technology is solid enough as of the last few years to support a number of more useful materials. My primary focus is the ability to shoot TPU and TPE, since my school of thought is focused on using lightweight pneumatic actuation, I feel like I should be able to print flexible materials into custom airbags and bellows cost effectively. I'm also hopeful that I can print "limbs" and manipulators with airbags and bellows incorporated into them in time.

I've been seriously looking at a budget friendly model, the Creality CR-10 V3 E3D Direct Drive Extruder Printer or possibly a base model CR-10 that I could add a high quality direct drive to right away. As I understand a direct drive is recommended for softer materials, though the TPE and TPU that's used is really not extremely soft, weighing in around 45A on the shore scale.

I'm aware that a more expensive model would serve me better over time, but I'm trying to get as capable, as inexpensively as possible to allow room in my budget for a shredder (hacked paper shredder), and a DIY or kit filament extruder. Those two items would allow for easy recycling of failed prints, and let me turn readily available plastic bottles into PET for prototyping for free (barring electrical draw).

I'd also like to start out with an enclosure, it's recommended for keeping an even temperature for printing more difficult materials like TPE, TPU, PET, and nylon. Also, since I may go months between prints it should be useful to keep my printer clean and safe. Ideally I'd like to end up with a filament dryer as well, but I'll probably settle for a sealed plastic tote with Silica Gel inside for filament storage.

I'm very new to this so any input regarding my plan would be more than welcome, and I have some time since I'm trying to learn more about the use of Blender and Slic3r before I buy my printer. I'm also hoping to set up a CNC engraver, possibly fully DIY with the aid of the printer if I get competent enough, but that's a story for another time.

[mad_ady]

There's a thread by @tobetter where he custom builds a 3d printer with klipper on a Odroid C4. Give it a read before you buy anything.

[L67GS]

There's a thread by @tobetter where he custom builds a 3d printer with klipper on a Odroid C4. Give it a read before you buy anything.

I'd seen it before I was serious, but forgot about it. That's going on my to-do list...

[rooted]

Do you really need the build volume of the CR-10?

My printer has a volume of 250x250x265 and I've never used the entire volume.

My suggestion is you want a printer which runs Marlin firmware and has nothing proprietary such as the display and definitely a direct drive extruder if you plan on printing TPU softer than 95A.

If you need the volume of the CR-10 v3 I suggest at least looking at the Artillery Sidewinder X2, it's better in nearly every way and only costs a few more dollars.

*Edit*
It's actually less expensive right now.

https://www.newegg.com/p/288-00CD-00020 ... S5VJFA6436

[L67GS]

Do you really need the build volume of the CR-10?

My printer has a volume of 250x250x265 and I've never used the entire volume.

My suggestion is you want a printer which runs Marlin firmware and has nothing proprietary such as the display and definitely a direct drive extruder if you plan on printing TPU softer than 95A.

If you need the volume of the CR-10 v3 I suggest at least looking at the Artillery Sidewinder X2, it's better in nearly every way and only costs a few more dollars.

*Edit*
It's actually less expensive right now.

https://www.newegg.com/p/288-00CD-00020 ... S5VJFA6436

I just watched a few reviews on Artillery Sidewinder SW-X2, very impressive. It's actually significantly cheaper than the one I was looking at when we figure the auto bed level was an add-on. I'm going to watch a few more videos today, then likely order. Is there a preferred brand of filament, or more importantly brands to avoid?

[rooted]

I generally use Sunlu, Yousu, and Jayo but most are fine including MicroCenter Inland if you happen to fortunate enough to live near one.

I have a friend who has two Sidewinder X2 and he loves them, I would have definitely purchased one at that price had it been available at the time.

It ticks all the boxes I like to see these days.

1) Marlin
2) No proprietary display
3) AC bed heater
4) ABL
5) Direct drive extruder
6) Silent stepper drivers
7) Klipper compatability
8) Well known and tested brand

[L67GS]

.... and I just spent $379.24.
1) Sidewinder X2
2) Nozzle Assortment
3) Sunlu PLA to learn with
4) Some cheap TPU that got good reviews
5) Silica Gel to toss in the bags with my rolls

That should get me started, TPU is no fun to shop for, it's expensive and hard to find in a low shore hardness like 45. If that 95A is too rigid for what I want to do at least it wasn't pricey.

[rooted]

All that was still less than my printer, but it also has a laser attachment and dual extrusion of which I've never used either. I think you made a good choice and should get much enjoyment from your purchases.

I've used that brand of TPU and it's nearly as easy to print as PLA and has decent flexibility, think TPU phone cases. Smart choice getting the silica, TPU is indeed hydroscopic and different nozzle sizes are great to experiment with to find the best mix of speed versus quality.

Gotta love it comes stock with a volcano style hotend.

Ninjaflex would be some of the softest I know of, it's like a rubber band.

Note silk PLA is harder to print versus normal PLA.

[rooted]

This is some tri-color silk PLA I just got in.

[L67GS]

Maybe I should have gotten different PLA, I didn't even know there was a difference, lol. Well, at least learning on the more difficult stuff will give me good experience. While looking for enclosures I bumped into the Sidewinder X2 for $10 less than the price I got if anyone else is looking.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Artillery-Si ... hbdg=L1700


Edit: Just ordered an enclosure, the printer will live at home for a couple of weeks while my Son and I make friends with it and the enclosure will protect it from those filthy animals that eat the stinky food, walk in their own feces, and destroy everything with their claws and bumbling. Once I move it to the shop and put it in my lab the enclosure will help keep a stable temperature since it can be drafty there.
My starting investment is now $418.23, not bad at all.

[mctom]

I can't afford space in my apartment for a 3D printer, so for now I depend on my friends and local services doing the prints for me.
(That's my way of saying: Subscribed )

[L67GS]

My printer is 2-3 days away now. I've been watching YouTube videos the last few nights in preparation.
Yesterday the enclosure, nozzle assortment, silica gel packets, and filament arrived.

[rooted]

My printer is 2-3 days away now. I've been watching YouTube videos the last few nights in preparation.
Yesterday the enclosure, nozzle assortment, silica gel packets, and filament arrived.

Have you installed a slicer such as Cura or Prusaslicer and started learning the interface?

[InsideOut]

Running Klipper is definitely an upgrade that is very worthwhile. 3D printers are a tinkerer's dream.

[rooted]

Running Klipper is definitely an upgrade that is very worthwhile. 3D printers are a tinkerer's dream.

Indeed klipper is great, at the same time Marlin is still a nice tried and tested firmware but certainly more difficult to compile and not the new hotness.

Where klipper really shines is ease of configuration, flexibility, speed, and of course the mainsail and fluidd web based front ends.

[L67GS]

My printer is 2-3 days away now. I've been watching YouTube videos the last few nights in preparation.
Yesterday the enclosure, nozzle assortment, silica gel packets, and filament arrived.

Have you installed a slicer such as Cura or Prusaslicer and started learning the interface?

I've installed Slic3r and Cura, Slic3r would be my preference if possible because I instantly dislike any software that wants a login. I suppose I could make a Cura account with my junkmail email address.

[rooted]

You don't have to login to Cura. Try Prusaslicer if you like Slic3r as it was a fork but is far more advanced now, there is also an awesome fork of Prusaslicer called SuperSlicer which is worth checking out.

[L67GS]

I've had it for a matter of hours, already looking at upgrades, lol. Most of the wheels are out of round and it was much fiddling to get them rooling smooth(ish). Also considering a bed mat to get stuff off easier.
So far I've only printed the sample files, and they came out fine, but I'm wondering how they would look with truer wheels.
I will check out Superslicer too, unfortunately I work 3 consecutive 12hr nights starting tomorrow.

[tobetter]

I've had it for a matter of hours, already looking at upgrades, lol. Most of the wheels are out of round and it was much fiddling to get them rooling smooth(ish). Also considering a bed mat to get stuff off easier.
So far I've only printed the sample files, and they came out fine, but I'm wondering how they would look with truer wheels.
I will check out Superslicer too, unfortunately I work 3 consecutive 12hr nights starting tomorrow.

Congratulation and welcome to 3D printer community who runs 3D printer to print parts for 3D printer.

[rooted]

Most of the wheels are out of round and it was much fiddling to get them rooling smooth(ish).

If you loosen the eccentric nuts and let it sit loose for say 24 hours then snug them back up they should be much better if not true.

Of course they can be replaced for not much money as well, although I'm nearly certain Artillery support would be willing to ship you new wheels under warranty.

[L67GS]

Congratulation and welcome to 3D printer community who runs 3D printer to print parts for 3D printer.

The Sidewinder X1 & X2 both suffer from wobble towards the top of the gantry because they're so tall and have a roll holder on top. I got Superslicer installed and sliced a test piece before I print some Z axis support brackets.

If you loosen the eccentric nuts and let it sit loose for say 24 hours then snug them back up they should be much better if not true.

Of course they can be replaced for not much money as well, although I'm nearly certain Artillery support would be willing to ship you new wheels under warranty.

I'll try that, and contact Artillery about warranty parts. That's an excellent idea.

[rooted]

Yeah my friend who has two of them added stabilizers to one of them, something like this but I believe he purchased it from somewhere.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/gadget/ ... ewinder-x1

[L67GS]

Yeah my friend who has two of them added stabilizers to one of them, something like this but I believe he purchased it from somewhere.

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/gadget/ ... ewinder-x1

X2 has a different gantry so the many X1 braces don't fit. There's only one or two options, but I really want to print them. It'll give me an excuse to buy black PLA too, lol.

Here's an example of the finish on the vase thing file that came, supposedly optimized for the X2 vs the whistle I grabbed willy nilly from cults, then sliced with Superslicer using the profile for X1 ABL on my X2 since there's no X2 profile yet. Superslicer produced a MUCH nicer finish, but it was a lot slower so that may be it.

20230111_145343.jpg (135.41 KiB) Viewed 619 times

That silver PLA from Sunlu is beautiful when printed, pictures don't do it justice. It could at a glance be confused with polished aluminum and I think it printed nicer than the stock violet roll that came with the printer.

20230111_004818.jpg (122.45 KiB) Viewed 619 times

[L67GS]

Ya know, I loosened all the rollers to where they were as loose as possible without allowing slop. My progression in print quality may have been partly due to the wheels coming back into true over the course of the night.

There's noticeable slop in the Z leadscrews, I'd like to address that, but it probably doesn't matter thinking of how the machine uses the Z axis.

[rooted]

Is the slop in the brass leadscrew nuts? If so that is supposed to be there to allow for any wobble in the leadscrew.

Those are some fantastic first prints! Many if not most people struggle for a while before getting anything like that.

[L67GS]

Is the slop in the brass leadscrew nuts? If so that is supposed to be there to allow for any wobble in the leadscrew.

Those are some fantastic first prints! Many if not most people struggle for a while before getting anything like that.

Thank you! I really think I got the right machine thanks to you.

There's talk online about sidewinder "bent" leadscrews, and others who identify them as misaligned and wobbly. I believe they are one in the same. I did order black PLA, and blue that looks close, so I'm planning a tune up day for next week. I'll install my Z braces and spend the day with my dial indicator making adjustments.
There's a couple more light mods I'd like to do, then I can get more serious in CAD knowing the Sidewinder is a solid tool to prototype with.
I think I may make a couple Odroid cases with hominoid's SBC Case Builder too.

[rooted]

I'm glad it is working out, I think printing one or more cases would be a good test of dimensional accuracy.

[L67GS]

Ameridroid shows the old 3.5" Touchscreen, and I have a couple of C0's..... been wanting that one for years but I don't know what I'd do with it.

[rooted]

Ameridroid shows the old 3.5" Touchscreen, and I have a couple of C0's..... been wanting that one for years but I don't know what I'd do with it.

@mad_ady used it for something I believe, I have one but broke the tabs on the acrylic case.

[hominoid]

Congratulations on the printer acquisition @L67GS, that should keep you busy for awhile.

[mad_ady]

The 3.5" screen coupled with a supported odroid (c0/c1/c2) and a supported os (I'm on 18.04) can even run x11 at 10 fps. I'm using mine to display a chrome kiosk with some homeassistant dashboards, for quick access.

[L67GS]

The 3.5" screen coupled with a supported odroid (c0/c1/c2) and a supported os (I'm on 18.04) can even run x11 at 10 fps. I'm using mine to display a chrome kiosk with some homeassistant dashboards, for quick access.

I'm thinking it might be nice to have a tiny computer at work so I can re-hash some of the Candice functions into small programs and have a "calculator" type thing that's optimized for what I do at work.

[L67GS]

My flexible bed sheet hasn't shipped yet, they're saying it'll be here next Saturday now. Since my big tune-up day is postponed I spent today learning some stuff in FreeCAD. After one day I can already make not so simple parts and I learned how to render images like logos for import into FreeCAD.
Tomorrow I should have a basic understanding of how to do more complex geometric shapes to start making bellows and such. FreeCAD is far more capable than I initially thought.

[joerg]

Just to mention that I also jumped on the train...Last November I bought a Creality3D Ender 3 V2 Neo with well Black Friday discount at about 230Euro. Normally price here in Germany is about 320Euro.
@L67GS I used FreeCAD also in the past, but moved to OpenSCAD and find it easier to use and faster rendering.
For a small stackable box (to have my deskop tidy up):

Code: Select all

$fn=50;
difference() {
translate([1.5,1.5,1.5])
minkowski()
{
  cube([74,50.5,1]);
  cylinder(r=1.5,h=44);
}
  translate([1.5,1.5,3])
  cube([74,50.5,44]);  
};

difference() {
  translate([3,3,0])
minkowski()
{
  cube([71,47.5,1]);
  cylinder(r=1.5,h=1.5);
}
  translate([3,3,0])
  cube([71,47.5,1.5]);
};

Bildschirmfoto vom 2023-01-15 11-58-38.png (18.38 KiB) Viewed 530 times

I had to make some experiments with the build plate adhesion. With only Skirt it didn't stuck well and the best I reached with Raft. But this way it need about 1 hour more to build...

[mctom]

I also wanted to recommend OpenSCAD. I designed my 3D printed things with OpenSCAD with no prior experience with any other mechanical CAD tools.
Not to mention @hominoid's SBC case generator which would be impossible in any other CAD software I'm afraid, especially the "generator" part.
I'm working on a H3 case design as we speak.. So I'm also learning the trade, especially what can be printed and what is not worth the trouble.

My turn to show off a recent 3D printed design. It's an adapter that goes between an electromechanical valve actuator and my radiator valve.
The bundled one was too short so I recreated it in 25 messy lines of code. I introduced two variables, ps and pt, that allow me to extend the length of two segments compared to the original.
It contains a metric thread inside, generated by an external open source library. Will it work? I'm yet to find out.

Code: Select all

use <threads-scad/threads.scad>

$fn=200;

L=0.01; // Planck length
2L=2*L;
ps = 10; // plus sleeve
pt = 5; // plus thread

difference(){
    union(){
                                            cylinder(d1=28.5, d2=30.8, h=1.6);
translate([0,0,1.6-L]) cylinder(d=30.8, h=1.1+2L);
                                            cylinder(d=28.5, h=6+L);
translate([0,0,6]) cylinder(d1=33.5, d2=35, h=1.4+L);
translate([0,0,7.4]) cylinder(d=35, h=3+ps+L);
        for(i=[0:6:360]) {
            translate([17.5*sin(i),17.5*cos(i),9]) cylinder(3,d=1.2);
        }
        
translate([0,0,10.4+ps]) RodEnd(diameter=35, height=5+pt, thread_len=5+pt, thread_diam=30,thread_pitch=1.5);
    }
    
   translate([0,0,-L]) cylinder(d=24,h=100);
}

[rooted]

I like both packages but have used blender for nearly 20 years so I'm much more familiar with it, not ideal for CAD but there are add-ons which help.

I'm surprised you took to FreeCAD so quickly, it's not the most intuitive software initially.

[L67GS]

I loved the scripting console in OpenSCAD, but most of what I want to do involves complex shapes, mainly bellowes. OpenSCAD didn't seem to have as many add-ons for doing curves and such as FreeCAD.
I'm just now getting into curves, last night I got to where I can make pretty much any solid shape (didn't learn threads yet).
I tried Blender for a day last week, and no, it's not optimum for 3d modeling. It is however exceptional at animation.

[rooted]

Oh freeform modeling in blender is excellent, where it falls short is technical modeling with precise measurements. Initially the default measurements are in meters not millimeters among other worse things.

I have a Moi3d license and it's excellent as well, luckily it also works perfectly in wine since it's a Windows (and Mac) CAD package. Not exactly inexpensive at $295 but so easy to use, it was gifted to me as there is no way I could justify paying that much unless it was a business expense.

[L67GS]

My print bed sheet never came, so I cancelled it and ordered a different one. This morning when I went to bed (I'm 3rd shift) I saw my second choice bed sheet, and another Amazon package had been scanned onto a USPS truck for final delivery at exactly the same time.
Somehow the other package arrived and the bed sheet is delayed. Ironically the other package is vinyl and silicone tubing for the 3D printed pneumatic actuators I want to experiment with ........ once I know I can get the damn things off the bed.

[rooted]

I just use glue stick as a release agent on glass for TPU and PETG, PETG can actually pull up chunks of glass as it cools without a layer of something between it and the glass.

[L67GS]

I just use glue stick as a release agent on glass for TPU and PETG, PETG can actually pull up chunks of glass as it cools without a layer of something between it and the glass.

Thank you, until now I'd only read glue sticks promote adhesion. I just printed a square that was designed for the Z axis and it was little effort to remove.
Hopefully after my supports and tune-up I can get rid of those out of bounds spots that are on the sides of the square here.
I have 2 more tools to print before my tuning.

20230124_002541.jpg (244.4 KiB) Viewed 423 times

[rooted]

That print looks like metal, so smooth.

[L67GS]

... and I removed that magnetic print surface for good. I'm going to be a full time glue stick person for now. Perhaps later I'll try a different brand bed sheet that's textured instead of this smooth one once my bed is nicely beat to hell. I don't think I had a single good print come off that thing, one tipped, bent my ABL probe, plugged my nozzle enough to redirect the flow, and by the time I noticed it the machine had encapsulated the heat block inside the silicone boot.
Tonight I ordered rebuild and upgrade parts for the extruder (making lemonade) and a second whole extruder with ABL unit ($50) so I can keep one whole extruder fresh all the time, or perhaps optimize one for hotter printing like nylon and keep the other stock.

Edit: I don't know how many of you guys have figured this out yet but Ziploc 1 Gallon bags (not with the fancy sliding zipper but just the regular ones) will fit a 1KG roll with a little room to spare. In contrast Great Value 1 Gallon with the zipper does not have a big enough opening for a roll to fit past.

[rooted]

Good tip, I use them for my PETG with some desiccant packages but I also have a Sunlu brand filament dryer.

Sucks about the issues on that build plate, you should be able to rough it up with a scotchbrite pad to aid adhesion if you ever wanna give it another shot. Personally I like glass unless I'm trying to print fast then all that extra mass causes artifacts and is harder on the Y axis stepper and driver, I use both but glass mostly.

[hominoid]

... and I removed that magnetic print surface for good. I'm going to be a full time glue stick person for now. Perhaps later I'll try a different brand bed sheet that's textured instead of this smooth one once my bed is nicely beat to hell. I don't think I had a single good print come off that thing, one tipped, bent my ABL probe, plugged my nozzle enough to redirect the flow, and by the time I noticed it the machine had encapsulated the heat block inside the silicone boot.

Are you cleaning the bed for each print? I use alcohol and by the way, smooth surfaces are harder to print on imo. You can also try printing on Kapton tape which is what I use. It works for ABS and PLA.

[L67GS]

I did scotch brite the plate, on the metal side - not the coated side. And I was meticulous about cleaning the build plate. All I could find was 70% alcohol but I considered briefly bringing some straight isopropyl home from work, lol. I'm using a plastic scraper, alcohol, and paper towels. I'm thinking about gutting a food dehydrator and making a large dry box to keep filament in once I get the printer out of the house and into the lab but for now it's ziploc bags and desiccant packs.
In all I've had good experiences, with more good prints than failed prints, and honestly I have yet to really dig into the machine and "mill-write" it properly so I'm still feeling good.
My plan is to run the new extruder and then build the snot out of the original one to prep it for nylon (for later in a better ventilated environment.

[rooted]

Nylon is a bitch unless you have a heated enclosure or an enclosure and use carbon fiber filled nylon.

It's also super hydroscopic so you will definitely want that filament dryer.

[rooted]

You can also try printing on Kapton tape which is what I use. It works for ABS and PLA.

I also use blue 3M painters tape since I have it around the house, works great.

[L67GS]

Picked up some blue masking tape but have yet to try it since the glue sticks have been working so well. My new extruder is installed so I'm currently printing the last of my Z brace parts. I'm also going to CAD a couple of covers up to trim the nuts and washers so I can cover the allthread with some split loom tubing and pretty it all up.
On top I'm considering making some trim caps to cover the top of the allthread and nuts that are shaped like little rockets, lol, it IS an Artillery brand printer.
Also confirmed today that Glad 1 gallon storage bags (with the blue & yellow makes green seal) work for a 1KG roll. It's probable safe to say all 1 gallon bags without the slider should be a good fit.

[rooted]

I've found on larger PETG prints blue tape is superior in preventing any edge curl or warping versus glue stick (aka PVA) and when a PLA print has minimal build plate contact such as items with many small details.

In any case if you do run into a material or print where PVA isn't quite cutting it give the tape a shot, it's good stuff. A lot of people like using hairspray (plain unscented aquanet is good) on glass and it does work well, although I don't like having to remove the glass to respray and I'm not covering my desk in it.