The Next ODROID!

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OverSun
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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by OverSun » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:34 pm

If one research RK3399 boards, as I did, he will find out that most of them are priced at lowest 145$, having storage soldered. I do honestly think that step to make eMMC removable is a great marketing step. I, as Odroid user since U2, have enough eMMC cards not needing another one. Therefore 110$, compared to at least 145$ I would need to buy the same board from any other supplier, is a deal breaker.
Last edited by OverSun on Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by mad_ady » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:39 pm

Remember guys that XU3 was sold at about 170Eur when first launched. @odroid you could base your business plan/initial volume based on past XU3 sales

Regarding design - @odroid you should have gpios which can turn on/off/reset the usb busses to reset misbehaving devices.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by odroid » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:54 pm

Let me share the price breakdown roughly to minimize misunderstanding with our important community members.

DRAM: ~$40 (1GB/$10: https://www.dramexchange.com )
SoC: ~$20
PCIe-SATA related circuitry: ~$8
Other components: ~$15
SMT/Manufacturing: ~$8

As you can guess, the profit is really limited if we consider the volume discount for our distributors and many B-to-B customers.
I don't think there is much room to reduce the cost even though we can build 10,000 boards every month.

One great news!
We are selling the XU4 board like a hot cake after announcing the N1 board today. :twisted:

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by rooted » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:06 pm

So after you sell out the XU4 you can say nevermind on the N1, it was April fools day in February :)

The N1 is expensive to produce, I knew that's what you meant when you said it cost too much.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by odroid » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:28 pm

@tkaiser,

Let me explain the PCIe to SATA stuff.

According to the RK3399 datasheet page 69, one PCIe lane can support 2.5 GT/s only.
http://opensource.rock-chips.com/images ... 170301.pdf
It means their PCIe is Gen1, not Gen2.
When we started the schematics design in last May, the old datasheet mentioned it was Gen2 5 GT/s.
But Rockchip suddenly updated the datasheet and it was changed to Gen1 2.5 GT/s.
One strange thing is that we've been using the PCIe-SATA interface ASM1061 with Gen2 mode stably on our N1 boards more than a few months.

Anyway, we have a plan to make new engineering samples with the ASM1062 and the SPI flash in April.
If the Gen2 mode is unstable by using two PCIe lanes simultaneously, we have to use Gen1 mode and there will be no performance gain like April fools day.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by masrodjie » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:34 pm

Nice build!
I love it has native SATA, it would be faster.
It would be nice if it has battery charge connector.
Why it only has 3.0 VCC Power, not 3.3 V ?

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by Raybuntu » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:43 pm

nobe wrote:what's the current status about OpenCL and Vulkan on RK3399 ?
(for Linux)
Afaik for RK3399 there are no mali libs with Vulkan. Seems like RK didn't get a licence. There is also a RK3399pro with Vulkan coming out. Another cool thing about the RK3399pro SoC is that it has a NPU for AI computing:
https://www.96rocks.com/blog/2018/01/08 ... ouncement/
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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by crashoverride » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 pm

As a suggestion, there may be a valid case for a 2GB N1-Lite that includes SATA. With no USB3 UAS issues to content with, it will be possible to use HDD storage for swap file space as is done on a PC. If the SPI flash scenario works out, the extra cost is justified by not having to use a SD card or eMMC at all.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by odroid » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:01 pm

crashoverride wrote:As a suggestion, there may be a valid case for a 2GB N1-Lite that includes SATA. With no USB3 UAS issues to content with, it will be possible to use HDD storage for swap file space as is done on a PC. If the SPI flash scenario works out, the extra cost is justified by not having to use a SD card or eMMC at all.
Yes! it seems to be the most reasonable way to go.
Thank you for the suggestion.
We can share a proof of the SPI boot concept within a few days.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by karlkloss » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:42 pm

I'm completely missing a word about the video capabilities.

4k@60Hz? 10bit? HEVC decoding? DTS passthrough? Widevine? Netflix certification?

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by tmihai20 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:17 pm

@karlkloss: I can tell you from the start that Widevine and Netflix certification in an Android build will be L3 Widevine and no Netflix certification. DTS passthrough also depends on the software. This website http://rockchip.wikidot.com/rk3399, that appears to list official Rockchip specifications says:

Video
Real-time video decoder of MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4,H.263, H.264, H.265, VC-1, VP9, VP8, MVC
H.264 10bit up to HP level 5.1 : 2160p@60fps (4096x2304)
VP9 : 2160p@60fps(4096x2304)
H.265/HEVC 10bit: 2160p@60fps(4096x2304)
MPEG-4 up to ASP level 5 : 1080p@60fps (1920x1088)
MPEG-2 up to MP: 1080p@60fps (1920x1088)
MPEG-1 up to MP: 1080p@60fps (1920x1088)
H.263: 576p@60fps (720x576)
VC-1 up to AP level 3: 1080p@30fps (1920x1088)
VP8: 1080p@60fps (1920x1088)
MVC: 1080p@60fps (1920x1088)
Support video encoder for H.264, MVC and VP8
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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by Nominal Animal » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:31 pm

rooted wrote:There is nothing you can isolate to remove the high pitched whine
Not on a 40x40mm fan, but a larger one can have the same airflow at much smaller RPMs; thus less whine. (I wonder how many additional components would a soft/slow-start fan-on require..)

It would be much easier to cool SBCs, if the heat-generating components were the only ones on the backside, so that one could use a big honking heatsink on the entire surface. Roughly like on the HC1.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by trohn_javolta » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:55 pm

Great, I waited until now for the HC2 and am again unsure if I should buy it or wait for N1 :(

Do you think this could work well used as a nas/homeserver/kodi device?
My usecase would be nas with gbit transfer speed (2x 3.5 HHD) no raid needed, homeserver stuff like dl servers, torrent, plex (hw transcoding) a bit of extracting archives and smooth kodi with hw accelerated HEVC decoding.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by willmore » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:12 pm

@odroid, looks great. I like the plans for the lite version, but I'm in the camp that would rather have 4GB and no SATA. So, I'm in the minority of the minority. ;)

Sorry to hear about the PCI-E issues, that must be very frustrating.

Regarding the chip select issue. You could use a multiplexer or a few little logic gates to share the CS signal between the 40 pin connector and the SPI NOR flash. Use a GPIO to select the NOR flash CS at boot time (pick an I/O that's the right level or use a pull up/down) and toggle it the other way once boot has finished.

And I second the comment made earlier (by I think mad_ady) that you need to make sure that the USB ports have individual reset/power lines. Please. This is one of the things that helps with long term board stability. People plug the strangest stuff into these boards.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by willmore » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:14 pm

trohn_javolta wrote:Great, I waited until now for the HC2 and am again unsure if I should buy it or wait for N1 :(
Unless you can wait until June or so to do your build, stick with your HC2 plans. Even when this board is released, it'll take a while for the channel to fill and for end users to start getting boards.

Normal tech buying advice is to buy what you need only when you need it and no sooner nor later.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by crashoverride » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:17 pm

trohn_javolta wrote:unsure if I should buy it or wait for N1
N1 has a tentative release date. The extent of the wait is an estimate.
trohn_javolta wrote:Do you think this could work well used as a nas/homeserver/kodi device?
It will more than meet the average/typical needs of this scenario.
trohn_javolta wrote:hw accelerated HEVC decoding.
HC2 does not offer hw accelerated HEVC. N1 does.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by mad_ady » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:20 pm

crashoverride wrote:
trohn_javolta wrote:hw accelerated HEVC decoding.
HC2 does not offer hw accelerated HEVC. N1 does.
And even if it did, it doesn't have a HDMI port :)

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by crashoverride » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:21 pm

willmore wrote: You could use a multiplexer or a few little logic gates to share the CS signal between the 40 pin connector and the SPI NOR flash. Use a GPIO to select the NOR flash CS at boot time (pick an I/O that's the right level or use a pull up/down) and toggle it the other way once boot has finished.
Thats an interesting idea.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by trohn_javolta » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:29 pm

crashoverride wrote: HC2 does not offer hw accelerated HEVC. N1 does.
Yeah, I know. Got a seperate S905X box with libreelec for media playback atm. Just thought I could get rid of a device. Second HDD is in an external enclosure that would plug into usb2.0 port of HC2. But maybe I'll sell that HDD (no space issues righ now).
But I guess you're right to get the HC2, my hummingboard with i.mx6 dual SoC needs to be replaced as homeserver :lol:

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by ard » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:40 pm

At the higher price, I want to know if we can access the CSI lanes.
If that is available we can at least build a hdmi2csi using the toshiba chipset.
That will at least create a generic display overlay system for aftermarket solutions.
That would be cheaper than using specific USB3 hdmi frame grabbers.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by cardiosis » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:51 pm

Will the N1 case have some way to secure the HDDs via screws or something similar to the HC1?

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by mad_ady » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:04 am

crashoverride wrote:
willmore wrote: You could use a multiplexer or a few little logic gates to share the CS signal between the 40 pin connector and the SPI NOR flash. Use a GPIO to select the NOR flash CS at boot time (pick an I/O that's the right level or use a pull up/down) and toggle it the other way once boot has finished.
Thats an interesting idea.
That needs to be reversible - so that you can flash a new uboot to SPI if needed, or backup the existing one from userspace.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by ASword » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:48 am

This looks terrific. The talk about how a $110 hexa-core 64-bit ~2GHz 4GB RAM and a powerful GPU and all that I/O is not affordable makes me ROFL. I know, I know they need to compete with Rock64 and probably a few others. They need to get under the $100 psychological 'barrier'. But take a step back for a moment and marvel guys. Look how far things have come in the past decade, even the past 5 years. And then reflect for a moment on how much this thing costs, but measure it in meals or coffees or whatever metric is meaningful to you. A little perspective on what ODROID and the industry have managed to achieve is called for, I think. Kudos to HardKernel, well done. I'm sure they'll optimize their costs and design, but even their current price is pretty damn astonishing.


Okay, now for my specific questions:
* How wide a voltage range can this thing accept? I have a 24v DC supply, plus DC-DC conversion to 15.5v and 5v. I'd rather not have to convert to 12v as well.
* Any chance you're going to make an HC-1 style metal frame, only double high so it can hold 2 x 2.5" drives?
* Can it use the same serial to USB cable as the XU4/HC1?

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:52 am

odroid wrote:...4Gbyte DDR...
+ faster crypto
Sold. :D
willmore wrote:...I like the plans for the lite version, but I'm in the camp that would rather have 4GB and no SATA...
exactly; SATA is useless to me because it is limited to 2 drives + some tiny amperage. USB3 is the interface of choice when connecting a SBC to large (10 to 100TB) storage. And if I'm using less storage it's going to be just an SDCard.
If there were a light version with just ethernet+usb3+4GB_RAM (no usb2, sata, uart, power, reset, GPIO) (maybe HDMI) that would be perfect

It would be nice to have a bigger heat-sync AND a fan.

Also if you put the power on a stack-able header then one could stuff a lot of them in a 2U rack and use them as cloud nodes.

What was the extra cost for DDR4? (like the ROC-RK3328-CC)

It's nice that there will be a lot of Rockchip boards soon so the communities can benefit from each others work.

(if memeka gets Wayland working on the RK3399 it will be the first SBC I would consider as a desktop replacement)
Last edited by elatllat on Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by ASword » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:02 am

willmore wrote:...I like the plans for the lite version, but I'm in the camp that would rather have 4GB and no SATA...
exactly; SATA is useless to me because it is limited to 2 drives + some tiny amperage. USB3 is the interface of choice when connecting a SBC to large (10 to 100TB) storage. And if I'm using less storage it's going to be just an SDCard.
I disagree entirely. I don't want to attach spinning media to this thing, and if I did a USB3 w/ external power would be fine. But SDCards for serious storage? Not a chance, they are far far too unreliable and short retention period. I want to store data for years, and for that a proper SATA SSD is ideal. Two for redundancy or more capacity.
It would be nice to have a bigger heat-sync AND a fan.
Definitely want the no-fan option because (if necessary) I will separately mount a software controlled large formfactor *quiet* fan that blows across the whole board. I'm sure in-case fans are required for many uses, but they are annoyingly loud.
What was the extra cost for DDR4? (like the ROC-RK3328-CC)
An even better question is, what performance impact does it have in practice? 70% more bandwidth doesn't translate to even close to 70% more performance. Need to see that before the additional cost can be assessed, especially with people already complaining about $110 (?!).

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by cardiosis » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:11 am

ASword wrote:I disagree entirely. I don't want to attach spinning media to this thing, and if I did a USB3 w/ external power would be fine.
Out of curiosity, why so? If the case has screw mounts which secure the HDDs in place, there should not be a problem right?

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:17 am

ASword wrote:...I disagree entirely....
You mean you have a different use case (not NAS with 50TB storage and not HTPC with network storage)
Clearly you like the HC1/HC2 use cases and that's fine, we are just reminding odroid that some % of customers (a poll might be fun) use odroid products for other things.
cardiosis wrote:...[SSD] why so?...
SSDs are so much faster then HDD.
M.2 is that much faster again.
Last edited by elatllat on Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by crashoverride » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:21 am

elatllat wrote:What was the extra cost for DDR4?
I would love to have the option to purchase a "premium" version of N1 with DDR4-2133!

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by thatchunkylad1989 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:26 am

How can we apply to be in the debug-party? I'd love to test an Odroid-N1. :D

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:36 am

thatchunkylad1989 wrote:How can we apply to be in the debug-party? I'd love to test an Odroid-N1. :D
Likely you would have to time travel to the past and make significant contributions to the odroid community.
I made some small kernel contributions, and website fixes but nothing on the scale of memeka (wayland), crashoverride (c2play), etc so I don't expect anything, as much as I want the new board.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by joaofl » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:39 am

I'm more concerned about the power supply, since it is so common that people experience what seems to be software bugs, but that are actually poor power supply.
I'm wondering what will be the maximum current @5V to power an external 12V 3.5" HD.

Wouldn't it make sense to make its input 12V so it could power external HDs in parallel to the PSU? (pretty much like external HD enclosures do with a step-down to 5V, 3.3V etc...). Then we could use a computer power supply which is cheap and reliable.

Another (maybe naive) point is: to make more transparent to the user the instantaneous current and voltage from the PSU, so we could diagnose any power related issue more easily, instead of believing its software related. I know there are some PSUs that count with some power measurement peripherals, reason why I'm saying it.

Does it make sense?
Last edited by joaofl on Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by thatchunkylad1989 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:45 am

elatllat wrote:
thatchunkylad1989 wrote:How can we apply to be in the debug-party? I'd love to test an Odroid-N1. :D
Likely you would have to time travel to the past and make significant contributions to the odroid community.
I made some small kernel contributions, and website fixes but nothing on the scale of memeka (wayland), crashoverride (c2play), etc so I don't expect anything, as much as I want the new board.
That sucks but thanks for the info. :(

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by joaofl » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:48 am

Another thing: At the time you reach full production, cant you supply it in Europe (and other continents) more actively? I have two XU4, being one bought from you directly (to which customs apply), and another from Pollin in germany, which is one of the few suppliers to have it on stock for a reasonable price.

Having some Chinese suppliers selling it on AliExpress with free shipping, would be a GREAT! Then you could reach people worldwide!

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by venkatbo » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:57 am

Yest another gr8 pragmatic offering from HK - kudos to team, for having considered all the feature feedback from the community.

Wondering if there is room for some mods, such as:
  • Can the GPIO pins protrude from the "bottom" of the PCB. This will allow for the use of both the fan/heatsink (even after-market ones) AND add-on boards in a "stacked" fashion. No interference then between heat-dissipators and add-on cards. Will also allow the option to use a passive heatsink, but add a large fan to the edge (like in MC1), so the main N1 and all the add-on boards can be "cooled" with just one fan
  • If that is possible, and since the orientation of the heatsink is @45 deg to the corner, maybe its possible to create a heatsink with fins at 45 deg too, so the large fan I mentioned above can efficiently drag air across the fins allowing for better heat dissipation
  • Maybe, the bank of pins could be detachable too, so folks who don't need the GPIO pin, they could stack a bunch of these N1's
  • The large fan can be added to the edge that has the DRAMS (not the one where the GPIO pins are)
  • Since many folks in the past did not realize the proper PSUs needed for their projects, would it be possible to add an LED (green/red) to indicate power OK/NOT-OK situations
  • Based on market analysis, create 2GB, 3GB, 4GB versions for different price points
  • Allow for a lower priced SKU that does not include the default heatsink/fan so folks can add one later as they want
Just my $0.02 :-)
Last edited by venkatbo on Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:29 am

joaofl wrote:..Having some Chinese suppliers selling it on AliExpress with free shipping, would be a GREAT! Then you could reach people worldwide!
That's a good idea considering they are likely fabricated there anyway.

I hope rock-chips and wikipedia will get updated after release.
board-db is already updated.
Last edited by elatllat on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by tkaiser » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:33 am

odroid wrote:Let me explain the PCIe to SATA stuff.
Thank you for the insights. I think it's important to differentiate between link rates (2.5GT/s vs. 5 GT/s) and PCIe revision/generation and that we need more tests to get an idea why Rockchip chose to downgrade their specs to 2.5GT/s. I would believe it's somewhat related to https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/9345861/

I hope I get (remote) access to another RK3399 device with an extremely fast PCIe x4 SSD attached soon and maybe we (ayufan, Xalius and me) are able to do some tests in this area (how is link training affected by using 1, 2 or all 4 lanes and if we get NVMe working which transfer speeds at the storage layer are realistic and with which link rates we're dealing then. Worst case scenario would be only 2.5GT/s links negotiated and then overall bandwidth not even 4*2.5Gbps which can be easily possible given this chip's purpose)

Wrt power circuitry I wonder if it's 12V input or 15V as silkscreened on the PCB? I hope for the latter and DC-DC circuitry providing stable 12V for HDDs.

And I also wonder why the SoC is positioned on the 'wrong' PCB side since I would assume an approach like HC1 and HC2 would work much better and helps avoiding those annoying fans. SoC on bottom, one inexpensive large metal plate as option, another larger one with fins as more expensive option. Problem solved (especially with Add-on boards in mind)?

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by tkaiser » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:44 am

venkatbo wrote:[*]If that is possible, and since the orientation of the heatsink is @45 deg to the corner, maybe its possible to create a heatsink with fins at 45 deg too, so the large fan I mentioned above can efficiently drag air across the fins allowing for better heat dissipation
I found heatsinks with some distance between the fins to allow for passive convection working better while still allowing to be used with fans sufficiently, eg:

Image

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by greengeek » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:37 am

This board sounds very interesting, especially with the extra ram and sata controller. I know it will appeal to quite a few people in the retro gaming / emulation markets. A lot use the raspberry pi to run a lot of the older emulators. However there are still quite a few that don't mind spending a little more than they did for their raspberry pi in order to be able to run some of the more resource intensive emulators more smoothly. Plus being able to put a 512 GB or 1 TB SSD on there to hold lot of the larger rom files would be very nice. The XU4 gets really close to being a great device for this use. This new board sounds ideal.

The price is a little high, but still far cheaper than similar spec boards or the other alternatives, cannibalizing old laptops, intel nucs, etc.

I noticed that the retropie devs ( https://retropie.org.uk/ ) have added support for the C1/C2 and XU3/XU4. Out of curiosity have you included them in your test group release? I would be extremely interested in picking one of these boards up if I knew they would work with the retropie software.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by Raymond Day » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:38 am

Nice that it has 2 SATA ports. But is it covert it from USB to SATA? Any one can do that all ready.

-Raymond Day

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by mad_ady » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:41 am

No, they are native (from pcie I think).

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by alexei » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:46 am

The big question: does your SATA bridge (ASM1061 or ASM1062) support port multipliers, so that multi-disk enclosures can be attached?
A tentative online search suggests that they do, but I wanted to confirm with you. Thanks.
https://ata.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/S ... e_features
http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show_pr ... _index=166

Also, this has been asked in this thread above alread, but I missed the answer: what is the input voltage range supported? If I have a dedicated power supply for my drives, will the board run on 5V? Or does something on the board really depend on 12V?

PS. Those mounting hole locations, tho.... I know, layout is a b*ch, isn't it... but still.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by Starboy123 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:55 am

wow looks great

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by tkaiser » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:04 am

alexei wrote:The big question: does your SATA bridge (ASM1061 or ASM1062) support port multipliers
Only CBS but not fast FIS based switching. Then you can already take any of those crappy USB3 multi disk enclosures and connect it to one of the two USB3 ports (or one to each port to get a real disk nightmare).

@odroid: I really hope you will not allow the 5V undervoltage drama again with this board. Hopefully it's 12V on the dev samples to be replaced with wide range input suitable to be combined with any of those 19V laptop PSUs you get for 1 buck off of eBay.

@mad_ady: SATA is not native but PCIe attached/bottlenecked :)

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by crashoverride » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:08 am

Speaking of power, it would be interesting to have the HDD power connector function as a power input as well as an output. This would allow a single regular PC power supply to power the board and drives. It would also simplify multi-board/multi-drive N1 installations.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by ASword » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:19 am

cardiosis wrote:
ASword wrote:I disagree entirely. I don't want to attach spinning media to this thing, and if I did a USB3 w/ external power would be fine.
Out of curiosity, why so? If the case has screw mounts which secure the HDDs in place, there should not be a problem right?
Oh, I don't mean there is a physical mounting problem, I just mean that I'm not interested in using spinning platters for my use case. They're so 20th century. They do have quite high power demands though, so powering them directly seems more prudent. Personal taste mostly.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by ASword » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:24 am

elatllat wrote:
ASword wrote:...I disagree entirely....
You mean you have a different use case (not NAS with 50TB storage and not HTPC with network storage)
Clearly you like the HC1/HC2 use cases and that's fine, we are just reminding odroid that some % of customers (a poll might be fun) use odroid products for other things.
Yes, completely agree -- I'm doing the same thing by espousing my own use cases. One danger to having too many variants is that it drives up the design costs, and so they have to be careful not to create designs that won't sell enough units to justify their creation.
cardiosis wrote:...[SSD] why so?...
SSDs are so much faster then HDD.
M.2 is that much faster again.
Not just that. For extremely technical reasons (that I won't go into) SSDs on either SATA or M.2 are vastly more robust than SD cards, USB sticks, or even the eMMC cards. For reliability you really don't want the 'dumb' devices. Don't leave bits on such devices and expect to get them all back after a year or two.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by fnkngrv » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:26 am

so here is my initial 2 cents which I am sure that there will be someone that will disagree, well because internet.

the exclusion of built in wireless at the least BT at this price point seems stupid. Wifi is a bit disappointing as well. someone saying "just buy a dongle" is very short sited unless all you care about is the development community buying your products. people can scoff all they want about mention of the raspberry pi boards, but the bottom line is that they, at $35 for the version 3 and $10 for the Zero W have this baked in. there is no fumbling around with drivers and all that crap or figuring out which of the million adapters are out there that someone could purchase and try to use.

the square form factor is just ok and it just reminds me of the poor choices are out there for cases. unless once again you are targeting only developers in order for an SBC to get mass adoption and support there really should be multiple case options available at launch. to be completely candid that was one of the main reasons why I waited so long to even buy my XU4. I have had mine for 6 months and only use it for development because there aren't any appealing cases out there for it.

I personally could give two dead flies smashed about what people who knock the raspberry pi say about it because there is no denying that when a board gets solid community backing the sky is the limit. if you don't get the every day user's backing then you will still be limited to what you will make for sales.

that fan sucks period. there are plenty of other boards and electronics out there that have similar sized fans that don't sound like a dying cat the way this one does.

the last thing I have to say off hand is that I sure as hell hope that the hardware being used is a hell of a lot more reliable being over 100 bucks than the XU4 especially when the warranty period is a sad 30 days. testing and validation for quality control needs to be addressed because the quantity of DOA boards I have seen in the wild is unacceptable at even just above the 50 dollar price point of the XU4.


that's all the negative for now.

the board specs otherwise look very promising and a nice upgrade. the inclusion of SATA is a nice touch and can be quite useful for some users/developers. the throughput with USB3.0 still sounds more enticing to me, but knowing that I can use an internal SATA storage solution is great.

the move to the cpu in question is nice and should have great support for a good amount of time to come.

it looks like the video aspect and possible gamer attributes look promising as well.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by campbell » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:32 am

I am very interested in this and the potential lite version.

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by tkaiser » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:35 am

ASword wrote:For extremely technical reasons (that I won't go into) SSDs on either SATA or M.2
M.2 is a mechanical connector/spec, nothing more, nothing less. Can transport PCIe up to 2.x x4 (that's why ROCK960 or the upcoming FriendlyELEC RK3399 thing use M.2 key M so you can choose to connect whatever PCIe peripherals with an adapter or PCIe based AHCI or NVMe SSDs to it, though ROCK960 seems to violate the M.2 standard a bit and exposes also RGMII on the M.2 connector to use RK3399's native Gigabit Ethernet). But can also just transport SATA or just USB3 or just USB2 or just SDIO to attach eMMC or even SD cards.

The use of an M.2 connector has exactly no influence on performance or reliability, it depends on the protocols that the connector carries and the peripherals involved :)

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Re: The Next ODROID!

Unread post by alexei » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:36 am

tkaiser wrote:
alexei wrote:The big question: does your SATA bridge (ASM1061 or ASM1062) support port multipliers
Only CBS but not fast FIS based switching. Then you can already take any of those crappy USB3 multi disk enclosures and connect it to one of the two USB3 ports (or one to each port to get a real disk nightmare).
Ok, thanks. CBS is good enough for my case.
I'm doing the USB3-eSATA dongle already with XU4 and with Rock64. What's the point of paying $100 if you can do this on any USB3 board. The dongle is $35 tho, not cheap.
@odroid: I really hope you will not allow the 5V undervoltage drama again with this board. Hopefully it's 12V on the dev samples to be replaced with wide range input suitable to be combined with any of those 19V laptop PSUs you get for 1 buck off of eBay.
12V is slightly unfortunate because you can't run it from a 12V UPS battery without a buck-boost in between. With 5V you can use a simple buck. Not a big difference, but would be nice to know if the board will power up on 5V, including SATA ports but not HDD power port.

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