N2+ USB ports no longer working

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N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by servili007 »

I have a unit ordered in August of 2020 straight from HK. The USB power rail (VBUS) seems to have totally left the building, as I can't even get a USB powered LED light to respond.

5V rail at the GPIO is fine.

lsusb only contains the linux foundation root hubs, no genesys devices. A powered hub doesn't help the situation.

@odroid this seems like a dead USB hub controller IC?

Code: Select all

test@odroid:~$ sudo lsusb -t
/:  Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci-hcd/1p, 5000M
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci-hcd/2p, 480M
test@odroid:~$ sudo lsusb
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by odroid »

Right. The USB hub controller IC GL3523 on the board was dead.

Since our warranty period is 16 weeks, you need to pay two-way shipping cost to repair your near three years old board. Sorry about that.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=661

Or, if your application can live with a single USB 2.0 port, consider using the micro-USB port with an OTG-to-Host cable something like this.
https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/usb2-0-otg-cable/

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by servili007 »

odroid wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 4:03 pm
Right. The USB hub controller IC GL3523 on the board was dead.

Since our warranty period is 16 weeks, you need to pay two-way shipping cost to repair your near three years old board. Sorry about that.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=661

Or, if your application can live with a single USB 2.0 port, consider using the micro-USB port with an OTG-to-Host cable something like this.
https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/usb2-0-otg-cable/
I was not making a comment on warranty length or board reliability, I just wanted to understand the issue :) I was surprised by the failure since this unit is a headless server with a single usb device connected and sits on a shelf where it isn't touched.

A few follow-up questions:

What is your engineer's opinion on the difficulty of replacing the GL3523 via hot air rework if I'd like to attempt it myself?

Is there an additional repair cost in addition to the two way shipping if I do send it back?

There were some N2 board revisions to address stress to the GL3523. Are any mods performed to repaired boards to approximate these changes?

Thank you

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by odroid »

If you have some experience of replacing QFN package ICs, it must be easy.

Our labor cost of replacing the GL3523 IC is a few dollars including a new IC.
But if the USB root hub in the SoC(S922X) is damaged, it will be a totally different story.
Because the SoC is glued with epoxy, we can't replace it.
Therefore, in worst case, we can't repair your board.

The PCB revision of 3.3Volt power-rail isolation was applied from early '2021.
But the power-rail trace exists in inner layers, it seems to be almost impossible to implement a simple mod.
8-layer PCB modding is quite difficult and very expensive.

We've shipper over 200,000 N2 boards in the past few years.
There were about 0.1% of USB failure issues user reported before applying the PCB design change.
After changing, the failure rate seemed to dropped to 0.05%. But it is still existing.

BTW, what is your production date number of your board label showing?
https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-n2/hardw ... lot_number
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mctom (Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:22 pm)

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by servili007 »

odroid wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:08 pm
BTW, what is your production date number of your board label showing?
https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-n2/hardw ... lot_number
Label shows 2006

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by odroid »

It was made in June 2020.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by servili007 »

It was not a beginner level job given the density of the pins, but the Genesys chip has been replaced, and I now have functional USB ports again.

Code: Select all

test@odroid:~$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 05e3:0620 Genesys Logic, Inc. USB3.1 Hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 05e3:0610 Genesys Logic, Inc. Hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
test@odroid:~$ lsusb -t
/:  Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci-hcd/1p, 5000M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 5000M
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci-hcd/2p, 480M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Hub, Driver=hub/4p, 480M
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

odroid wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:22 am
...
Hi.
Is there a way to know what IC is damaged?
I can buy an N2 with dead USB ports for a few bucks, I just need to know if GL3523 is faulty.
To confirm, is it U26 ?

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by odroid »

If USB 3.0 host ports are not working, U26 or U12 might be damaged.
If U12 output voltage is steady 5Volt, U26 GL3523 is faulty very likely.
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

odroid wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:40 am
If USB 3.0 host ports are not working, U26 or U12 might be damaged.
If U12 output voltage is steady 5Volt, U26 GL3523 is faulty very likely.
Hi odroid.
It seems U26 is damaged.
I found QFN76 GL3523-OTY10 and OTY30.
Cannot find difference between them.
Do you know which one is it?

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by mctom »

OTY is their symbol of QFN76 package, and I'm just guessing that "30" is an updated version of "10". The latter is removed from the manufacturer's website, so you probably want "30". But I'm not completely sure, @odroid will know for sure. :)
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by odroid »

We can check the suffix early next week since it is already Friday evening hear Korea.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

mctom wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:09 pm
OTY is their symbol of QFN76 package, and I'm just guessing that "30" is an updated version of "10". The latter is removed from the manufacturer's website, so you probably want "30". But I'm not completely sure, @odroid will know for sure. :)
Thanks. I don't think this really matter but it's better to ask ;)
It seems there is majority of OTY30 so you're probably right.
odroid wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:37 pm
We can check the suffix early next week since it is already Friday evening hear Korea.
Thanks a lot. I scratched marking while removing it and forgot to take picture before.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by mctom »

Here is someone else's picture. Looks like there is "30" in the marking, but could mean anything. :)

viewtopic.php?p=339071#p339071
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

mctom wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 8:09 pm
Here is someone else's picture. Looks like there is "30" in the marking, but could mean anything. :)

viewtopic.php?p=339071#p339071
Thanks that's interesting, as I've seen that OTY10 have marking code ending with 10.
This N2 is rev 0.5 so I don't know if previous revisions used OTY10 or 30. I'll check my others N2 this weekend to compare.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by ruppi »

It's a minor chip revision change with some specifications related to USB 3.1, so I believe it's okay to use anything whether it's 10 or 30.
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

Thanks. I managed to read marking code of the one I removed on rev 0.5, it seems to be OTY20.
I ordered OTY30. Fingers crossed.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

So, I managed to replace U26 GL3523 IC.
The most difficult part was to remove it, I heated a lot and hope I did not damage something else.
Resoldering was pretty easy.

But, there was some colateral damage :lol:

Image
Image

No way to resolder it. I think pads are damaged, I need to reorder somes, but cannot read silk part number.

I tested anyway, So USB devices are powered, but there seems to have no data transfer (keyboard not responding, usb flash drives lights are on but no blinking,...)
Is it possible that I damaged U27? Close to where I heated a lot :roll:

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by mctom »

U27 appears to be some kind of storage (EEPROM or FLASH), most probably with configuration data for GL3523. If it stops working then the USB hub will operate with default settings, which are no good if the configuration storage is present in the first place.
Could you have damaged it? Probably yes, but for now let's hope not.

It is very hard to tell what the marked component was. Almost certainly a capacitor, but which one?
Have you tried measuring the capacitance of that speck of dust? :D
I am guessing this is one of C244- C246, as it is close to DVDD 1.2V input pin.
There is a high chance the hub should work without it, perhaps become a little less stable. However if you damaged the trace reaching pin 47 in the chip, then it surely will not work. It should have 1.2V.

Here are some DC voltage measurements you can try to debug the issue.
All measurements to be done relative to GND.
#1-2 are L10, #3-4 are C243, which are parts of 1.2V Buck converter.
#5 is pin 47, which uses voltage from 1.2V Buck. Be very careful not to short it to neighboring pin with a probe!
#6-#7 are C256, which provides 3.3V to th memory chip.

If your multimeter can measure frequency, try measuring it across capacitor #8 - it should be 25MHz.
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

Thanks my friend I will try.
I just took a look at the N2 datasheet and it seems to be R120, connected to pin 46.
But just don't know what means the 'F' letter after R120 20k value :?

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Last edited by zyssai on Sun Dec 10, 2023 7:35 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

Here are measurements.

1: 1.21V
2: 1.16V

3: 0V
4: 1.21V

5: 1.21V

6: 0V
7: 3.28V

For 8, I'm not sure but there seems to be no frequency (0Hz).

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by mctom »

Excellent job, all voltages look completely fine.
The frequency could be way too high for your multimeter, that's the most reasonable explanation.

I thought it was a capacitor because of a color, but maybe this resistor used to be black before your hot air rampage :D
"20k F" probably means 20k with 1% tolerance. "F" is a very oldschool way of denoting that. :)
These days 1% is pretty much a standard tolerance of resistors so I wouldn't worry about that.
Other resistors may be of 5% tolerance to reduce cost, but this one must be precise, so it makes perfect sense to me.

The bad news is, this resistor is required. :(
If you say the pads are so damaged it's impossible to solder it back, you could try buying a bigger one and solder it somehow..
One end to the chip pin, and the other to the capacitor next to it, maybe? If that capacitor is connected to GND, which you can easily check.
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

Regarding the frequency it's possible that I am out of range with my old Metrix MX24 :)

So yes this is a resistor, I could have told that, the picture is not clear enough.
That's the resistor pads that are damaged. The PCB ones seems fine.
I have some 1206 but not sure they will fit :D :lol:
I surely have some smaller ones on out of order spare boards, I'll check that today, thanks mctom for your help as always :P

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by mctom »

Yeah, your multimiter is limited to 500kHz. But I'll be honest, I don't remember any multimeter measuring 25MHz reliably.

For electrical contacts, we usually use the nomenclature that pads are on PCB, and components have pins, even if component contacts don't look like pins. That helps avoiding confusion. :)

Instead of reusing a component from another board, you could try verifying it is indeed 20k resistor to make sure, and buy a new one, which will cost you shipping alone. :)
Get yourself 20 pieces so you can try as many times as you want. :)
I think this is size 0201.

If you have a sacrificial N2, why didn't you use USB hub chip from it? ;)
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

It was too late to verify component value, it goes to 9th dimension before I could do something with it :lol:

So I found a perfect 20k resistor on an old motherboard, I think size is 0805, couldn't fit in the right place.
So now, take a picture of this piece of art, print it, and put in a frame in your wall :D

Image

I can't clean it with alcoohol because of wires. But I will put a point of hot glue to save it from bad gestures.
It works!! USB ports are all working, thanks for your precious help as always :oops:
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by mctom »

@zyssai, this is incredible! Congratulations!

But please clean it! You can just splash it with acetone and leave it to dry.
Hot glue is a good idea, and another reason why this surface must be clean, so it can stick properly. :)

Odroid Wiki should have a gallery for pieces of art like that! :D
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by odroid »

zyssai wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:41 pm
It works!! USB ports are all working, thanks for your precious help as always :oops:
Congratulations!
It seems like your hardware technology has made amazing progress over the past 2-3 years. :o
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

Thanks guys :)

I've just made a speed test with HK 5BK Wifi Module to be sure there is no data transfer problem with USB and I think results are convincing.

Image
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by mctom »

This resistor is required by the reference current generator inside the chip. With known resistance connected to known voltage, you get known current. by the power of Ohm's law.
It is very hard to make a precise resistor in silicon, so some chips require external resistor instead.

This is one of them. I want to point out that this resistor passes constant current - so its parasitic properties, capacitance and inductance, do not matter at all.
If you did the same with USB data line, I don't think this would have worked. You were both lucky and persistent, which I continuously admire.
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

I always love to learn some useful facts like this, you know what you're talking about, it's impressive :twisted:

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by richbax »

Hello, i have a n2 with dead usb ports, what is the best option for boards that i can reuse the emmc i purchased. thanks

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

richbax wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:01 am
Hello, i have a n2 with dead usb ports, what is the best option for boards that i can reuse the emmc i purchased. thanks
Hi.

Dead USB ports are mostly due to dead QFN76 chip, not easy to replace, I will make a video soon.
Have you tested micro USB port? You can probably connect a USB hub to it?

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by richbax »

yes, it works but game play delay is unplayable. from the time i press the button on game pad there is to much delay. i have found no voltage on usb port. i have found a short on one of the usb port black chips behind the usb ports. there are 4 identical chips like this, 2 on top of the board, and 2 on the bottom. i figure i can connect a joystick to the pins on the gpio. But if we can replace the damaged chip that would be good.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by richbax »

do you have a board view for the n2 so i can see where the QFN76 chip is?

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

richbax wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:05 am
do you have a board view for the n2 so i can see where the QFN76 chip is?
QFN76 chip is the biggest square chip you will find on the board, labelled U26.
Near USB and HDMI port.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by mctom »

@richbax, you can download N2 schematic straight from the Odroid wiki.
Almost every chip has some of its pins shorted by design, that's not alarming.

But if USB fundamentally works but ports have no power, then I think "the QFN76" chip, which is an integrated 4-port USB3 hub, should be fine.

Each USB port has a power switch controlled by USB hub. These also act as overcurrent protection. These might be the four chips that you identified, they are in 5 or 6 pin SOT23 packages IIRC.
If all USB ports have no power, then instead of assuming that all four switches broke down, I would check the condition of upstream power supply, or the device that controls these switches.
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by muffindrg »

Hi, I have a problem with N2, all usb ports are dead. Checked U12, 5V is present, but no 5V on usb ports. Replaced GL3523 with GL3523-OTY30 QFN-76 bought from aliexpress but problem persist. Checked further, I have no voltage on PWREN pins on GL3523 chip. I'm missing something here or the chip i bought is fake. Any suggestions are welcomed. Thank you.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

muffindrg wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 7:59 pm
Replaced GL3523 with GL3523-OTY30 QFN-76 bought from aliexpress but problem persist.
Hi.
Do you have link?
I have bought some and did not faced any fake. I think it's unlikely.

BTW, can I have a doubt about the quality of your chip replacement?
If you have used standard solder, it can be difficult to get contact between pads and pins because it needs a lot of heat, you'd better to use solder paste.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by muffindrg »

zyssai wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 3:44 am
muffindrg wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 7:59 pm
Replaced GL3523 with GL3523-OTY30 QFN-76 bought from aliexpress but problem persist.
Hi.
Do you have link?
I have bought some and did not faced any fake. I think it's unlikely.

BTW, can I have a doubt about the quality of your chip replacement?
If you have used standard solder, it can be difficult to get contact between pads and pins because it needs a lot of heat, you'd better to use solder paste.
Hi, this is the link: https://a.aliexpress.com/_EILtOob
I have experience with soldering, bga reballing, etc as I own a car satnav repair shop.

Anything I can check ?

Thank you for your response.
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

I ordered from the same shop so I don't think your have a fake one.

So I think you already checked for possible shorts around the chip?
Did you look at the schematics?

And do you have voltage on micro USB OTG port?
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by muffindrg »

zyssai wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 5:15 am
I ordered from the same shop so I don't think your have a fake one.

So I think you already checked for possible shorts around the chip?
Did you look at the schematics?

And do you have voltage on micro USB OTG port?
Nothing shorted near U26. No, there is no voltage on microusb also.
Thanks for the schematics link.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

Do you have 5V on pin 1 of U25 and U30?
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by muffindrg »

zyssai wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 2:46 pm
Do you have 5V on pin 1 of U25 and U30?
I have 5V on VIN pin in U25 and all 4 U30, nothing on PWREN.
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by mctom »

Check whether the OS can see the USB chip. lsusb -t should do the trick.
See if the USB ports work via USB hub with external power source.

Also check if PWREN pins are shorted to GND.
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by muffindrg »

mctom wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 6:05 pm
Check whether the OS can see the USB chip. lsusb -t should do the trick.
See if the USB ports work via USB hub with external power source.

Also check if PWREN pins are shorted to GND.
Cannot issue lsusb because keyboard doesn't work. I will try with external powered hub. PWREN is not shorted to GND.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

muffindrg wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 6:32 pm
PWREN is not shorted to GND.
But what value do you have in diode mode? Is it OL or something else?

Traces of PWREN at output of GL3523 seems to go on back layer of N2. Probably a good idea to try to follow them even if there seems to be nothing between GL3523 and U25/U30/...

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by muffindrg »

zyssai wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 7:41 pm
muffindrg wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 6:32 pm
PWREN is not shorted to GND.
But what value do you have in diode mode? Is it OL or something else?

Traces of PWREN at output of GL3523 seems to go on back layer of N2. Probably a good idea to try to follow them even if there seems to be nothing between GL3523 and U25/U30/...
Traces of PWREN from GL3523 goes to R148A B C D resistors then to EN pin of U30 power switches. Strange thing, EN pin on U25 for OTG connector doesn't came from GL Hub controller, and is still 0V. So maybe something happened with S922X...
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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

Or, there is something required for PWREN to be high state.
I don't have time now, but you can probably check GL3523 datasheet to understand what is needed for PWREN to go high state.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by muffindrg »

I understand your statement but otg port should work without GL.

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Re: N2+ USB ports no longer working

Post by zyssai »

muffindrg wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 12:40 am
I understand your statement but otg port should work without GL.
I'm possibly wrong, but according to datasheet, it seems PRWEN is required too for OTG connector, but I don't know what is RT9715.

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