Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

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Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

Post by odroid »

Need for Speed? Need for More Speed?

We announced the S922X hexa-core powered ODROID-N2 device almost 15 months ago as one of the fastest ARM single board computers.
The default maximum Cortex-A73 quad-core clock frequency was 1.8Ghz and Cortex-A53 dual-core frequency was 1.9Ghz.

Recently, the SoC vendor Amlogic released a revised silicon design of the S922X.
Rev-A is replaced by Rev-C with an improved CPU core power rail budget and higher clock frequencies.

Before: Meson chip version = RevA (29:A - 40:0)
After: Meson chip version = RevC (29:C - 40:0)

With the revised chip design, the Cortex-A73 big-core maximum clock frequency is now 2.2Ghz.
This results in a 22% performance improvement over the previous 1.8Ghz clock frequency.

We call this new beast of a SBC the “ODROID-N2-Plus”. The price will remain the same as the previous model.

Need even more performance? Why not!
We’ve just tested over 300 samples of the revised N2+ boards, and we found that all of the boards could be overclocked to 2.4Ghz. This is a 33% clock frequency improvement over the original N2.
We could finally enjoy some GameCube retro games on 64bit Android OS with a playable speed thanks to the overclock.
Please note that we can't guarantee the overclock to 2.4Ghz but we believe most of them will work at that frequency range.


The Ubuntu 20.04 Gnome desktop experience with the Wayland GPU driver is also quite impressive. Upstream kernel 5.7 can use the hardware VPU acceleration via a slightly modified MPV.


We will release Android and Ubuntu OS images for ODROID-N2+ within a couple of days.



Here is a brief performance comparison chart.
N2plusBenchmarks1.png
N2plusBenchmarks1.png (97.37 KiB) Viewed 5614 times

A cooling fan may be required to prevent “throttling” due to the SoC temperature if your computing load is continuously very high at 2.4Ghz clock speed and the ambient temperature is 35°C (95°F) or higher.
We are selling a large 80mm quiet cooling fan separately to support the 2.4Ghz turbo speed at higher ambient temperature. https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/80x80x1 ... connector/
Otherwise, the stock heatsink is enough for a normal room temperature 25°C (77°F) or less.
ODROID-N2Plus-2208-NOFAN.png
ODROID-N2Plus-2208-NOFAN.png (92.82 KiB) Viewed 5614 times
ODROID-N2Plus-2208-FAN.png
ODROID-N2Plus-2208-FAN.png (94.36 KiB) Viewed 5614 times
ODROID-N2Plus-2400-NOFAN.png
ODROID-N2Plus-2400-NOFAN.png (176.87 KiB) Viewed 5614 times
ODROID-N2Plus-2400-FAN.png
ODROID-N2Plus-2400-FAN.png (97.37 KiB) Viewed 5614 times


Additionally, the onboard RTC backup battery source was changed to a widely available bare CR2032 coin cell instead of a proprietary one. You can keep the time over several years once you install a coin battery.
N2pluscoolingfanxh.jpg
N2pluscoolingfanxh.jpg (105.18 KiB) Viewed 5614 times
Look into the battery installation guide on the wiki page: https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-n2/getti ... tc_battery


The system height decreased from 34mm to 29mm approximately thanks to the slimmer heatsink.
N2vsN2plussize1.jpg
N2vsN2plussize1.jpg (63.21 KiB) Viewed 5614 times



Availability: You can order 4GB model now and we will start shipping from 20 July.
N2+ 4GB model($79) https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid- ... yte-ram-2/
N2+ Cooling Fan($4) https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/80x80x1 ... connector/

2GB model will be ready to order from 21 July and shipping from 24 July.
N2+ 2GB model($63) https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid- ... yte-ram-2/
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Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

Post by mad_ady »

That's unexpected! Congratulations! Looks like a beast!
I admit, the title was clickbait - was expecting news about running the game Need for Speed instead...

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Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

Post by AreaScout »

    Still waiting for RK3588 SoC :ugeek:, but it's good to see development growing, hopefully Panfrost will support the GPU/SoC soon otherwise I have no idea for that board :roll:

    RG

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by Slaminger »

    I'm going to have this device shortly and will be building Retro Arena and Slash TV for it.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by Raybuntu »

    Supported by CoreELEC out of the box already :D
    Can't wait to test it.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by odroidn2user »

    Wow, that sounds pretty good. Same basic configuration, more speed.
    And with 22% on the big cores, that's quite a jump. Who doesn't like that!

    And you are even showing off the hardware vdec, on the ubuntu desktop. Nice! :)
    Timing wise, the N2+ comes around about at the time the hardware gets fully supported on the ubuntu desktop.

    Nice touch on the battery, as well. Never really much liked that thing flopping around in there.

    There is however the added cooling fan though... It seems only needed when you want a steady overclock?

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    Just saw it on your channel. Looks promising. I may buy one too. Any improvement regarding GL3523 Hub controller?
    Last edited by superpowter77 on Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by powerful owl »

    odroidn2user wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:49 pm
    There is however the added cooling fan though... It seems only needed when you want a steady overclock?
    Yes, you can see from the graphs above that it doesn't throttle at 2.2GHz even with 35 degree ambient.
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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    With this serious speed bump, N2+ becomes the fastest current champ in the ARM64 SBC world, beating the Khadas Vim3Pro(A311D SoC: A73 cores (2.2Ghz), and x2 A53 cores(1.8Ghz)).

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by odroidn2user »

    (I like where the topic is called 'Need for Speed', the first video shows gaming performance, but does not show the fairly epic 'Need for Speed' game ;) haha. @ETA PRIME, if you are watching...)

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by rooted »

    That is quite a gain in performance. This was totally unexpected and a very nice surprise.

    I look forward to testing that gained horsepower, what a beast.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    odroid wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:25 pm
    Need for Speed? Need for More Speed?

    We announced the S922X hexa-core powered ODROID-N2 device almost 15 months ago as one of the fastest ARM single board computers.
    The default maximum Cortex-A73 quad-core clock frequency was 1.8Ghz and Cortex-A53 dual-core frequency was 1.9Ghz.

    Recently, the SoC vendor Amlogic released a revised silicon design of the S922X.
    Rev-A is replaced by Rev-C with an improved CPU core power rail budget and higher clock frequencies.

    Before: Meson chip version = RevA (29:A - 40:0)
    After: Meson chip version = RevC (29:C - 40:0)

    With the revised chip design, the Cortex-A73 big-core maximum clock frequency is now 2.2Ghz.
    This results in a 22% performance improvement over the previous 1.8Ghz clock frequency.

    We call this new beast of a SBC the “ODROID-N2-Plus”. The price will remain the same as the previous model.

    Need even more performance? Why not!
    We’ve just tested over 300 samples of the revised N2+ boards, and we found that all of the boards could be overclocked to 2.4Ghz. This is a 33% clock frequency improvement over the original N2.
    We could finally enjoy some GameCube retro games on 64bit Android OS with a playable speed thanks to the overclock.
    Please note that we can't guarantee the overclock to 2.4Ghz but we believe most of them will work at that frequency range.


    The Ubuntu 20.04 Gnome desktop experience with the Wayland GPU driver is also quite impressive. Upstream kernel 5.7 can use the hardware VPU acceleration via a slightly modified MPV.


    We will release Android and Ubuntu OS images for ODROID-N2+ within a couple of days.



    Here is a brief performance comparison chart.
    N2plusBenchmarks1.png


    A cooling fan may be required to prevent “throttling” due to the SoC temperature if your computing load is continuously very high at 2.4Ghz clock speed and the ambient temperature is 35°C (95°F) or higher.
    We are selling a large 80mm quiet cooling fan separately to support the 2.4Ghz turbo speed at higher ambient temperature. https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/80x80x1 ... connector/
    Otherwise, the stock heatsink is enough for a normal room temperature 25°C (77°F) or less.

    ODROID-N2Plus-2208-NOFAN.png

    ODROID-N2Plus-2208-FAN.png

    ODROID-N2Plus-2400-NOFAN.png

    ODROID-N2Plus-2400-FAN.png



    Additionally, the onboard RTC backup battery source was changed to a widely available bare CR2032 coin cell instead of a proprietary one. You can keep the time over several years once you install a coin battery.
    N2pluscoolingfanxh.jpg
    Look into the battery installation guide on the wiki page: https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-n2/getti ... tc_battery


    The system height decreased from 34mm to 29mm approximately thanks to the slimmer heatsink.
    N2vsN2plussize1.jpg




    Availability: You can order 4GB model now and we will start shipping from 20 July.
    N2+ 4GB model($79) https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid- ... yte-ram-2/
    N2+ Cooling Fan($4) https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/80x80x1 ... connector/

    2GB model will be ready to order from 21 July and shipping from 24 July.
    N2+ 2GB model($63) https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid- ... yte-ram-2/
    Is the old N2 case still gonna work with N2+ including new active cooling fan?

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by hominoid »

    Wow, the N2+ is going to be a screamer! Very nice improvements and upgrades. The battery holder is great as well! Looking forward to getting one of these for sure.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    Just ordered mine, looking forward to get mine shipped on july 24th. It wasn't clear but also ordered another PSU,an active cooling fan. My only concern is, if still going to work with the old N2 case, which I ordered it as well, just in case. Please advise?
    Last edited by superpowter77 on Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by cdu13a »

    superpowter77 wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:35 pm
    Is the old N2 case still gonna work with N2+ including new active cooling fan?
    If you mean the clear or black plastic cases that fits on the top of the ODROID-N2. Then yes is should work with the N2+.
    Where the plastic case attaches on the top hasn't changed.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    cdu13a wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:45 pm
    superpowter77 wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:35 pm
    Is the old N2 case still gonna work with N2+ including new active cooling fan?
    If you mean the clear or black plastic cases that fits on the top of the ODROID-N2. Then yes is should work with the N2+.
    Where the plastic case attaches on the top hasn't changed.
    Thank you for your prompt answer. Still going to need a confirmation from HK regarding this matter. I couldn't find any N2+ cases at the time of ordering.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by istanbulls »

    The reason for the silence in the forum has been determined.

    "Silence before the storm"
    :D

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    Still wondering whether or not 4Gb Ram would be enough to run a 64bit OS's properly. Sadly, Zram will still be in use. Not a criticism but I know if AML S922X would support up to 8Gb RAM, HK would've done it and I'd gladly paid the $20USD difference for it. This is going to be my 4th odroid product in 10 months. Can't complain about me as a customer. I Can't wait for my N2+.
    Last edited by superpowter77 on Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by rooted »

    A bump in RAM would have been appreciated but yeah unfortunately 4G is all that's capable by the SoC.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by smp »

    That was a missed opportunity to replace that troublesome GL3523 USB hub controller chip with something else.
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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by tobetter »

    @superpowter77, no case for N2+ but N2 case works for N2+. For the active cooling fan, the cable must be tied in the very small space very close to OTG port when the front cover is attached to the heatsink. The installation guide will be provided in this week.
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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    Where are Focal Fossa 20.04 official images for N2/N2+?. I don't want to install ancient Ubuntu 18.04.4 on N2+.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    tobetter wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:47 pm
    @superpowter77, no case for N2+ but N2 case works for N2+. For the active cooling fan, the cable must be tied in the very small space very close to OTG port when the front cover is attached to the heatsink. The installation guide will be provided in this week.
    Awesome, thank you for the info!

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by cdu13a »

    superpowter77 wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:52 pm
    Where are Focal Fossa 20.04 official images for N2/N2+?. I don't want to install ancient Ubuntu 18.04.4 on N2+.
    https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-n2/os_images/ubuntu

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    cdu13a wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:06 am
    superpowter77 wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:52 pm
    Where are Focal Fossa 20.04 official images for N2/N2+?. I don't want to install ancient Ubuntu 18.04.4 on N2+.
    https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-n2/os_images/ubuntu
    I meant Ubuntu 20.04 (Mate desktop) images.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by istanbulls »

    superpowter77 wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:33 am
    cdu13a wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:06 am
    superpowter77 wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:52 pm
    Where are Focal Fossa 20.04 official images for N2/N2+?. I don't want to install ancient Ubuntu 18.04.4 on N2+.
    https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-n2/os_images/ubuntu
    I meant Ubuntu 20.04 (Mate desktop) images.
    First, "Ubuntu 20.04 (MINIMAL IMAGES)"
    Then,

    Code: Select all

    sudo apt update
    sudo apt install mali-bifrost-wayland-driver
    Finally

    Code: Select all

    sudo apt install ubuntu-desktop
    or, with petitboot

    Code: Select all

    pb-event url@/net/eth0 url=http://ppa.linuxfactory.or.kr/installer/pxeboot/ODROID-N2/default
    
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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by Ozarks »

    So we have extra speed.

    But do we have extra reliability? The improved CPU core power rail budget is an interesting statement and so does this explain some of the hardware issues due to power rail issues that were being experienced and for which there seemed not to be any global statement about?

    What about extra warranty? 30 days in any developed nation would be seen as having not much more than a block of cheese.

    There is a major issue from where I sit with regards to the statement about having tested over 300 samples of the revised N2+ boards for overclocking reliability, only then to say that you can't guarantee the overclock to 2.4Ghz. This is the equivalent of a car company with an advert telling customers that they tested their latest model at 100Mph but that if you buy one they can't guarantee that the wheels won't fall off if the customer tries it. It does not indicate a faith in the quality control systems in place.

    As has already been mentioned, the opportunity to replace the troublesome GL3523 USB hub controller chip is a great shame.

    The RTC battery standardisation and price fix are good points.

    It will be interesting to see if the 22% theoretical performance can be shown as being so in real world use and I hope that units have been shipped off to ETA Prime and the CoreELEC team for their review and continued development.

    I'm guessing that in the Linux video demo, whilst 1080p video was demonstrated in Firefox, 4K is still out of reach?

    And please, give a nice new TV to the person that did the gaming demo as the 1990's wants it's composite CRT back.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by mad_ady »

    The CRT was used to provide the "native" look and feel of those old games. And also to demonstrate analog video output.

    Regarding guarantees about overclocking - there can't be any, since you're exceeding the soc vendor specs and depend on the silicone quality of the chips.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by Nuems »

    cdu13a wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:06 am
    superpowter77 wrote:
    Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:52 pm
    Where are Focal Fossa 20.04 official images for N2/N2+?. I don't want to install ancient Ubuntu 18.04.4 on N2+.
    https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-n2/os_images/ubuntu
    If I'm not misreading those pages, it's still kernel 4.9. Someone must be joking.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by odroidn2user »

    Nuems wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:41 pm
    If I'm not misreading those pages, it's still kernel 4.9. Someone must be joking.
    Someone probably is not joking.
    The mainline kernels from Torvalds & co have quite a long proces to accept and include all the required patches, and rightly so.
    So, what ARM does (and Hardkernel follows, and many of the hardware companies do exactly this), is they have their own kernel source tree.
    And they patch their code in their own source tree.

    Raspberry Pi does this with 4.19, if I remember correctly, Hardkernel with 4.9.
    This gets a working kernel out of the door. Meanwhile work continues to get all the required patches into the mainline kernel.
    And we're almost / mostly there. But, best hardware support for this device is currently with kernel 4.9, a specially prepared kernel 4.9 precisely for the N2.
    So, the patches comes to mainline 5.7 and upwards, but meanwhile we have 4.9 working well.
    That's how all these companies work. They have their own source tree for their own hardware.
    It's what I call the Android modus operandi, as a lot of smartphone manufacturers work that way. But this way of working probably has a different name.
    It's the only way to get new hardware with a linux kernel out of the door within any reasonable timeframe.

    There is a non-official Ubuntu 20.04 installer image with the current kernel 5.7, look for it on the forums.
    Works perfectly fine. And when there is full hardware support in the mainline kernel, the mainline kernel will become available in the official image releases.
    Last edited by odroidn2user on Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    Ozarks wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:32 pm
    So we have extra speed.

    But do we have extra reliability? The improved CPU core power rail budget is an interesting statement and so does this explain some of the hardware issues due to power rail issues that were being experienced and for which there seemed not to be any global statement about?

    What about extra warranty? 30 days in any developed nation would be seen as having not much more than a block of cheese.

    There is a major issue from where I sit with regards to the statement about having tested over 300 samples of the revised N2+ boards for overclocking reliability, only then to say that you can't guarantee the overclock to 2.4Ghz. This is the equivalent of a car company with an advert telling customers that they tested their latest model at 100Mph but that if you buy one they can't guarantee that the wheels won't fall off if the customer tries it. It does not indicate a faith in the quality control systems in place.

    As has already been mentioned, the opportunity to replace the troublesome GL3523 USB hub controller chip is a great shame.

    The RTC battery standardisation and price fix are good points.

    It will be interesting to see if the 22% theoretical performance can be shown as being so in real world use and I hope that units have been shipped off to ETA Prime and the CoreELEC team for their review and continued development.

    I'm guessing that in the Linux video demo, whilst 1080p video was demonstrated in Firefox, 4K is still out of reach?

    And please, give a nice new TV to the person that did the gaming demo as the 1990's wants it's composite CRT back.
    A reliable product is always important for the consumer piece of mind. My first N2 4Gb bought in September didn't work booting from microsd out of the box, when I switch the SPI ledger and saw both my USB SSD drive and my Coreelec microsd card were recognized by petiboot, I simply forgot about this assuming if Petiboot is able to see and boot my Coreelec card then should be ok. Just to found out today, my microsd slot is possibly defective. Also, tried eMMC card today for the first time and luckily for me, eMMC slot works. GL3523 hub controller gave me lots of headaches as well. HDMI port compatibility could be better too.

    @HK staff, there's always room to improve and QA department should step up and raise the bar regarding quality control by using quality components and performing a more exhaustive QA test on your products before shipping them out, even if it translates in a higher tag price. Talking specifically about my case, I do not manipulate, tinker or abuse my board, my computer room is fully grounded, has an AC unit running even in winter to avoid/reduce chances of overheating my PC's and SBC boards, my tables and floor are made of non-conductive materials and also it's static free because I take the precautions for it, and last but not least I use quality UPS units with their original PSU's for all my Arm SBC boards because I want them to last. If I want to experiment with boards, I'd get simply get an arduino board($12) or a Rpi Zero W board($14) which are cheap enough to justify a user mistake.

    In my case, if I ever receive a defective or faulty board from HK, chances are I will simply dispose of the product, I will not be dealing with a tedious and lengthy RMA process, paying shipping fees and paying import taxes again. I have my personal reasons why I prefer to buy directly from HK and not from the two authorized HK distributors in my country. I agree, warranty could be more friendly and flexible as well.
    Last edited by superpowter77 on Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by Nuems »

    @odroidn2user
    I'm fully aware of tobetter's image and its kernel - I've been using it for a while. As a longterm linux user, I'm also fairly aware of the kernel development process. I'm making a totally different point:
    As the community (e.g elatllat, tobetter et al. here on this forum, others on the graphics front) have done an amazing amont of work, it is barely acceptable that Amlogic aren't doing their share. This doesn't just affect Hardkernel and their customers (=us), it also leaves all their other customers out in the rain. Tons of consumer devices won't be updated because the kernel is stuck on an old version.
    I'm afraid I have to say that Hardkernel has a mixed history with respect to kernel support, too. While the XU4 has received kernel updates over quite a view years, I seem to have the knack of buying boards that don't receive these updates: XU, C1 and now N2. As a customer, I'm disappointed.
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    odroidn2user (Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:56 pm)

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by odroidn2user »

    Nuems wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:37 pm
    it is barely acceptable that Amlogic aren't doing their share. This doesn't just affect Hardkernel and their customers (=us), it also leaves all their other customers out in the rain. Tons of consumer devices won't be updated because the kernel is stuck on an old version.
    Yeah, I hear you on that. ARM does not have our usage in mind, in fact, they seem to rather be acting against it. It could be great, but ARM is shooting itself in the foot deliberately.
    The thing is, there aren't a whole lot of viable alternatives... other than Big Tech, which is exactly what you don't want to be using voluntarily.
    And given the limitations, I guess Hardkernel is doing the best it can, but who knows.

    But mainline support *is* coming one way or another, so that's the good news. Disappointing as ARM's official support may be.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    Nuems wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:37 pm
    @odroidn2user
    I'm fully aware of tobetter's image and its kernel - I've been using it for a while. As a longterm linux user, I'm also fairly aware of the kernel development process. I'm making a totally different point:
    As the community (e.g elatllat, tobetter et al. here on this forum, others on the graphics front) have done an amazing amont of work, it is barely acceptable that Amlogic aren't doing their share. This doesn't just affect Hardkernel and their customers (=us), it also leaves all their other customers out in the rain. Tons of consumer devices won't be updated because the kernel is stuck on an old version.
    I'm afraid I have to say that Hardkernel has a mixed history with respect to kernel support, too. While the XU4 has received kernel updates over quite a view years, I seem to have the knack of buying boards that don't receive these updates: XU, C1 and now N2. As a customer, I'm disappointed.
    I'm still betting for the heavy horse, this is going to be(N2+) my 3rd N2 besides a C4. I'm assuming and seems very implicit to me, if HK is releasing a N2 revision(N2+), support for Mali G52 GPU with HW hardware acceleration is officially coming thru an official Ubuntu image, out of the box, right? like Martin Wimpress, Director of Engineering for Ubuntu Desktop just did it with Rpi 4.

    @HK, it may not sound ethical but why don't you send him a few N2+ boards so he can help us with a better wayland/vulkan gpu driver implementation/hardware integration w/64bit ubuntu 20.04 for our beloved N2/N2+?.

    I'm not planning to use my N2's for retro emulation or Coreelec, I want them to work as a 64 bit desktop OS with full HW capabilities taking advantage of its superior 6-core CPU and MP4 GPU. Is that too much to ask? I don't think so!

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by odroidn2user »

    superpowter77 wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:14 pm
    In my case, if I ever receive a defective or faulty board from HK, chances are I will simply dispose of the product, I will not be dealing with a tedious and lengthy RMA process, paying shipping fees and paying import taxes again. I have my personal reasons why I prefer to buy directly from HK and not from the two authorized HK distributors in my country. I agree, warranty could be more friendly and flexible as well.
    Yeah, I experienced the same with Pine64 hardware... I got not one but two slightly defective RK3399 boards. Pine64 has 30 day guarantee as well.
    The first Odroid N2 I bought had a bent heatsink, it got replaced by the local reseller I bought it from. Major hassle, but yeah...

    I would indeed want/like better QA and high quality hardware, as well. And that is available, if you want to pay thousands of dollars for ARM boards computers. Yes, they exist. Couple a thousand dollars for a Arm PC will buy you a lot. Or buy into Big Tech, you get all their issues of anti-customer and inhumane behaviours. And even there, I have bought a lot of lemons from big names. And it is most certainly not just me. About every other Big Tech device I buy is faulty in some way, it's annoying as hell. But then, Big Tech is not there for you, you are there for Big Tech.

    For these types of Small Tech SBC boards, you get some faulty ones sometimes. It's all Small Tech, small companies doing awesome stuff as best they can. But it is most certainly not fault free. That is why these often are called developer boards, I guess.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by odroidn2user »

    superpowter77 wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:03 pm
    I'm not planning to use my N2's for retro emulation or Coreelec, I want them to work as a 64 bit desktop OS with full HW capabilities taking advantage of its superior 6-core CPU and MP4 GPU. Is that too much to ask? I don't think so!
    Yeah, that's my thinking as well. Turns out when you investigate the 'state of the art', it actually is a lot to ask.
    ARM doesn't support their hardware offerings right, and the mainline kernels just don't suffice.
    So, then - sadly - it is up to individuals and volunteering to get the hardware going right.

    Things like V4L2 just wasn't in existence up until short and hardware acceleration for video was (surprise, surprise) not even enabled on my Intel x86 on big distro's!
    I had to do all kinds of manual tricks to get that going even on my bog standard Intel NUC. And Intel has pretty good support for Linux. But even there...

    So yeah a fully hardware accelerated device (with GPU and VPU acceleration) on modern kernels and modern desktop environments turns out to be quite a big ask. I was surprised as well, when I went out to research this.
    But luckily, things are coming. RK3399 has pretty decent support about now, the N2 and C4 are following now closely, and mainline 64b support for the Raspberry Pi 4 is getting better and better now too, though even there it is still not complete/correct.
    Improvements are slow, but they are underway... slowly. Panfrost and VDec is coming soon to Bifrost.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by istanbulls »

    I use the Turkish brand (made in China) with a 128gb ssd.
    Petitibot should wait 20-30 seconds at first opening.
    Ubuntu 20.04 5.7 Wayland, Mate and CoreElc are available. I installed a triple system.
    It works very fast and problem-free. there is also Ex.HDD 2.5, 1TB and 2TB 3.5 ex.HDD. I have had no problems for the last 6-7 months. Especially Ubuntu 20.04 5.7 Wayland works very fast. file transfer is very fast.
    N2 is my daily PC, I do every job with it, I use it very intensively, I write this article with N2. I haven't had problems with USB3 for a long time.
    For your information.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by tobetter »

    FYI, 4 ODROID-N2Plus devices are ready on the ODROID-Bench.
    https://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?p=299432#p299432
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    Ameridroid (Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:57 am)

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by thering1975 »

    I will be purchasing this to replace my N2 in the living room which will in turn replace a PITA Beelink Box in the bedroom.

    The only thing i am dubious of based on the PITA beelink box is the CPU claimed speeds. Only reason i mention that is the GT_King pro was "The most Powerful" bla bla reaching speeds of 2.21GHZ on the s922x-h. In fact some vendors are still advertising this even though Beelink /Amlogic had to downclock the processor to stock speeds because it caused major system instability.

    Now i trust HK far more as the N2 is a capable device with far better support /community , but Amlogic et al leave a sour taste in the mouth with its claims.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by mad_ady »

    They got burned with the C2 with Amlogic's fake frequencies and since then they are benchmarking each frequency point to see how they scale. Yes, Amlogic doesn't have the best reputation, but it looks like they are improving (investing in mainline efforts too).

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by superpowter77 »

    mad_ady wrote:
    Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:25 am
    They got burned with the C2 with Amlogic's fake frequencies and since then they are benchmarking each frequency point to see how they scale. Yes, Amlogic doesn't have the best reputation, but it looks like they are improving (investing in mainline efforts too).
    Similar opinions can be found at khadas forums with their VIM Series SBC's around AML chips as A311D, S905D3, S912 and S905X. I was so ready to purchase a Vim3Pro(A311D),slightly faster CPU than N2(S922X). However, after finding out it does has also some USB3 I/0 performance issues and after seeing N2+ announcement, I went for it. I trust HK much more than them.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by miskol »

    Can you share more information about SOC ? What amlogic really update so SOC can go on 2,2 2,4 GHz?
    And one more question
    can we go for more then 2,4 ? 2,6 for example ? Is 2,6 GHz blocked in SOC or can we go for more?

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by odroidn2user »

    Ozarks wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:32 pm
    And please, give a nice new TV to the person that did the gaming demo as the 1990's wants it's composite CRT back.
    Haha, yeah. But you have to admit: it does give the video an authentic 'feel', retro-gaming on CRT.

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by miskol »

    superpowter77 wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:03 pm
    Nuems wrote:
    Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:37 pm
    @odroidn2user
    I'm fully aware of tobetter's image and its kernel - I've been using it for a while. As a longterm linux user, I'm also fairly aware of the kernel development process. I'm making a totally different point:
    As the community (e.g elatllat, tobetter et al. here on this forum, others on the graphics front) have done an amazing amont of work, it is barely acceptable that Amlogic aren't doing their share. This doesn't just affect Hardkernel and their customers (=us), it also leaves all their other customers out in the rain. Tons of consumer devices won't be updated because the kernel is stuck on an old version.
    I'm afraid I have to say that Hardkernel has a mixed history with respect to kernel support, too. While the XU4 has received kernel updates over quite a view years, I seem to have the knack of buying boards that don't receive these updates: XU, C1 and now N2. As a customer, I'm disappointed.
    I'm still betting for the heavy horse, this is going to be(N2+) my 3rd N2 besides a C4. I'm assuming and seems very implicit to me, if HK is releasing a N2 revision(N2+), support for Mali G52 GPU with HW hardware acceleration is officially coming thru an official Ubuntu image, out of the box, right? like Martin Wimpress, Director of Engineering for Ubuntu Desktop just did it with Rpi 4.

    @HK, it may not sound ethical but why don't you send him a few N2+ boards so he can help us with a better wayland/vulkan gpu driver implementation/hardware integration w/64bit ubuntu 20.04 for our beloved N2/N2+?.

    I'm not planning to use my N2's for retro emulation or Coreelec, I want them to work as a 64 bit desktop OS with full HW capabilities taking advantage of its superior 6-core CPU and MP4 GPU. Is that too much to ask? I don't think so!
    First raspberry pi has own set of problems
    for example they didn't fix v-sync on Pi4 drivers so when you are moving with windows you will see tearing that is really annoying

    And panfrost on C4 is "working".
    But panfrost on midgard GPU is slow for now. https://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=202&t=39291
    You can test it on N2 too, but still some problems. Differences between midgard G31(C4) vs G51(N2)

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by benwillcox »

    Looks great. Will connector J7 be populated with a pin-header on this version so that we can use SPDIF output without having to solder to the board?

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by cdu13a »

    benwillcox wrote:
    Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:07 am
    Looks great. Will connector J7 be populated with a pin-header on this version so that we can use SPDIF output without having to solder to the board?
    There is an available S/PDIF output on the J2 header(40 pin), it is pin 7. So no need to populate j7 just for S/PDIF.

    See https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-n2/hardw ... connectors

    Edit: I just looked at the device tree for the N2/N2+ to verify and the pin 7 on the j2 header is where S/PDIF out is by default.
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    tobetter (Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:15 am)

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by benwillcox »

    I don't know about the official ROM, but last time I checked on the LineageOS 16 build the SPDIF output was not available on the GPIO header, only J7.2

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by odroidn2user »

    miskol wrote:
    Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:15 pm
    First raspberry pi has own set of problems
    for example they didn't fix v-sync on Pi4 drivers so when you are moving with windows you will see tearing that is really annoying

    And panfrost on C4 is "working".
    But panfrost on midgard GPU is slow for now. https://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=202&t=39291
    You can test it on N2 too, but still some problems. Differences between midgard G31(C4) vs G51(N2)
    I am fairly sure that the G31 used on the C4 is Bifrost as well, and not midgard.
    Both the G31 and G52 in the N2 are Bifrost line products.
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    Toggleton (Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:56 pm)

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by tobetter »

    benwillcox wrote:
    Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:09 am
    I don't know about the official ROM, but last time I checked on the LineageOS 16 build the SPDIF output was not available on the GPIO header, only J7.2
    I believe there is a chance to use SPDIF on GPIO pin header, not J7.2, on Android, let me try to sort out next week.
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    benwillcox (Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:02 am)

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    Re: Need for Speed? Need for More Speed? [ODROID-N2-Plus]

    Post by chewitt »

    Mali G31 and G52 currently have issues with how the GPU is powered up on Amlogic hardware and this is hampering progress with Bifrost support - as there are few boards available from other SoC vendors. There is an ongoing but rather glacial conversation between an assortment of Panfrost devs, kernel maintainer and Amlogic (and me) but the moment we start talking about Linux != BSP and this mesa thing we get strange looks from the Amlogic side. Still .. nothing to be lost from trying to have the conversation.

    I posted an N2+ device-tree to LKML earlier: https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/li ... ies=320857
    u-boot fip sources if anyone needs them: https://github.com/LibreELEC/amlogic-bo ... its/master
    u-boot 2020.07 sources: https://github.com/chewitt/u-boot/commi ... 07-patches

    test boot with LE defconfig (a bit minimal compared to most desktop distros): http://ix.io/2s4L

    Code: Select all

    N2PLUS:/ # systemd-analyze 
    Startup finished in 1.767s (kernel) + 1.645s (userspace) = 3.413s 
    kodi.target reached after 1.645s in userspace
    ^ it's a bit quick :D
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    istanbulls (Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:11 am)

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