ODROID-N2

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by Raybuntu » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:36 am

@Oversun: CEC needs to be adjusted as I did for 3.14 kernel to work with libcec. It's on my list and won't take long.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by OverSun » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:37 am

Here you go, this is your source of lavg 1.
As I've said, lavg IS NOT CPU LOAD. It's number of processes waiting for a resource, where resource is CPU/Disk/Network. 1 process in D status (waiting for disk) is going to give you exactly 1.0 lavg.
Either kill this one, or find out what does it wait for.

PS. The same way normal load for servers is "when lavg == number of cpus". just a small chunk of wisdom. =D

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by campbell » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:42 am

rooted wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:35 am
The process vdec-core has a D status and is using approximately 0.3% randomly.
With which governor? I think I’ve seen it using more than that, like 2-3%, but maybe only with the ondemand governor.

Will boot the board in a few minutes and verify.

Another thing is I’ve noticed is that, like the c2 with Amlogic kernel (but NOT mainline kernel), the power consumption of the N2 drops noticeably after 10-20 minutes of uptime, I’m not exactly sure how much time, but it’s repeatable. So probably wait at least a half hour after booting before looking at loadavg.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by rooted » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:43 am

OverSun wrote:Here you go, this is your source of lavg 1.
As I've said, lavg IS NOT CPU LOAD. It's number of processes waiting for a resource, where resource is CPU/Disk/Network. 1 process in D status (waiting for disk) is going to give you exactly 1.0 lavg.
Either kill this one, or find out what does it wait for.

PS. The same way normal load for servers is "when lavg == number of cpus". just a small chunk of wisdom. =D
Thanks OverSun, I have used Linux for 22 years and didn't know that.

I can't kill the process as it will lock the device up, it's a system process of some sort. Video decoder is part of Amlogic.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by OverSun » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:49 am

vdec-core sounds like your are debugging Android? I don't really know which tools are available to debug android processes, but you probably can strace this one and see which calls it does.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by rooted » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:50 am



[quote="campbell]
With which governor? I think I’ve seen it using more than that, like 2-3%, but maybe only with the ondemand governor.[/quote]

It uses around 4% but settles down after an unspecified amount of time.

*edit*
No it doesn't, I set the governor from interactive to performance and it is using 0.3%
Last edited by rooted on Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by rooted » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:56 am

OverSun wrote:vdec-core sounds like your are debugging Android? I don't really know which tools are available to debug android processes, but you probably can strace this one and see which calls it does.
No this is under Ubuntu, you will have the process as well.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by campbell » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:00 am

rooted wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:56 am
OverSun wrote:vdec-core sounds like your are debugging Android? I don't really know which tools are available to debug android processes, but you probably can strace this one and see which calls it does.
No this is under Ubuntu, you will have the process as well.
It's not a real process, it's a kernel thread. Not sure how to show the difference in top, other than showing/hiding them entirely. In ps they have brackets around them.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by campbell » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:15 am

Yeah loadavg is (still) at 1.00 after > 24 minutes of uptime. Ondemand governor. vdec-core is using about 1.6 to 4.5% cpu.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by OverSun » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:17 am

rooted wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:56 am
OverSun wrote:vdec-core sounds like your are debugging Android? I don't really know which tools are available to debug android processes, but you probably can strace this one and see which calls it does.
No this is under Ubuntu, you will have the process as well.
Hm. I really don't... With every board I have first thing I do is checkout kernel from git and compile it myself. I don't have this process in the list, neither as kernel thread.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by rooted » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:19 am

OverSun wrote:
rooted wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:56 am
OverSun wrote:vdec-core sounds like your are debugging Android? I don't really know which tools are available to debug android processes, but you probably can strace this one and see which calls it does.
No this is under Ubuntu, you will have the process as well.
Hm. I really don't... With every board I have first thing I do is checkout kernel from git and compile it myself. I don't have this process in the list, neither as kernel thread.
The Hardkernel git or Linux git?

@campbell
Thanks for confirming.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by campbell » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:32 am

rooted wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:19 am
OverSun wrote:
rooted wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:56 am
OverSun wrote:vdec-core sounds like your are debugging Android? I don't really know which tools are available to debug android processes, but you probably can strace this one and see which calls it does.
No this is under Ubuntu, you will have the process as well.
Hm. I really don't... With every board I have first thing I do is checkout kernel from git and compile it myself. I don't have this process in the list, neither as kernel thread.
The Hardkernel git or Linux git?

@campbell
Thanks for confirming.
Willing to bet it can be disabled by removing the right thing from device tree. Perhaps oversun’s dtb file doesn’t have the same stuff in it

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by OverSun » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:39 am

Hardkernel, hardkernel... The amlogic kernel is so full of amlogic stuff, there is no way to boot normal kernel on this board yet.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by campbell » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:50 am

If i "fdt rm /vdec" in boot.ini, then I don't have vdec-core in top, AND loadavg with ondemand governor is 0.02 after 5 minutes of uptime, instead of 1.00. There's no measureable impact on power consumption though.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by crashoverride » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:58 am

Raybuntu wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:00 am
And telling them "technically it can" but we have to wait for this mainline thing to arrive and it could take 2-3 years until it's done.
This is also my position. I need a full featured kernel today. By the time mainline catches up, something newer, better, and cheaper is already out, and the cycle of waiting for mainline starts all over.

There is an important aspect that always gets lost in the kernel version discussions. The kernel versions used (as related to HK products) are all LTS. This means they are never "old kernels" because they constantly receive backports and patches. A kernel only becomes "old" when its changes to EOL or is otherwise abandoned.

The kernel used in N2 is at the time of this writing only seven (7) days "old":
https://github.com/hardkernel/linux/com ... 5b0977d8e1

Code: Select all

Linux 4.9.156
gregkh committed 7 days ago

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by memeka » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:01 am

Sure you need a kernel you use vendor
I’ll also be using Amlogic kernel on N2 :)
But this doesn’t mean to say “oh vendor is so good mainline is not good cause I don’t have Dolby on my odroid” :)

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by DarkBahamut » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:13 am

That is true, but it is worth remembering that LTS kernels only get security and bug fixes back ported, they do not get any new features. So I think it's still fair to call 4.9 LTS 'old' even if it is still supported.

I don't have any issues running devices with LTS kernels myself but it still is a very different beast to running stable/mainline and I can see why it's an issue for some people - though most users wouldn't have an issue I suspect and from a company with good support like hardkernel I wouldn't have any issues running BSP kernels as they do tend to keep the devices fairly up to date.

What you can have issues with is if you have a device that runs a BSP kernel on a LTS branch that then goes EOL and the board is never ported to a new LTS branch. Now you either have no support at all or you have to backport your own kernel work (or just accept no security updates). This is quite a common issue on android phones/tablets for example. My old Galaxy Note 4 is still a great phone and very functional, but it runs 3.10 LTS which is long EOL and of course Samsung will never be porting that to a new branch.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by campbell » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:24 am

DarkBahamut wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:13 am
My old Galaxy Note 4 is still a great phone and very functional, but it runs 3.10 LTS which is long EOL and of course Samsung will never be porting that to a new branch.
I would not turn on that phone. I would throw it into the sea

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by OverSun » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:25 am

crashoverride wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:58 am
Raybuntu wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:00 am
And telling them "technically it can" but we have to wait for this mainline thing to arrive and it could take 2-3 years until it's done.
This is also my position. I need a full featured kernel today. By the time mainline catches up, something newer, better, and cheaper is already out, and the cycle of waiting for mainline starts all over.

There is an important aspect that always gets lost in the kernel version discussions. The kernel versions used (as related to HK products) are all LTS. This means they are never "old kernels" because they constantly receive backports and patches. A kernel only becomes "old" when its changes to EOL or is otherwise abandoned.

The kernel used in N2 is at the time of this writing only seven (7) days "old":
https://github.com/hardkernel/linux/com ... 5b0977d8e1

Code: Select all

Linux 4.9.156
gregkh committed 7 days ago
I have two things to say, and I really don't wanna arguing.
First thing is that my position is that you should start doing things as mainline kernel expect you to be doing them. Example - exynos video decoder done through v4l2 since kernel 3.8. Easily ported through all versions till the current 5.0 where many other things of samsung has joined it. It was working in 3.8 it works now. Counter-example - amcodec. Thing that is never going to mainline kernel, "works now" and need to be modified over and over many times for every new kernel. This was my position. Do whatever you want to make kernel working, just read the fucking Documentation folder first, before converting your conciseness and feeling of how things should be done to the code.
Second thing is that supported kernel is unfortunately not kernel that is recent. Only fixes are being backported, not features. Example: lines you can see on every kernel earlier than 4.10 on latest LTS Ubuntu:
[ 11.756081] cgroup: cgroup2: unknown option "nsdelegate"
and
[ 11.867551] systemd[1]: File /lib/systemd/system/systemd-journald.service:36 configures an IP firewall (IPAddressDeny=any), but the local system does not support BPF/cgroup based firewalling.
Those two features are already used by userspace software and they are not available in those kernels. Yes they are small, yes they are not relevant, this is just example. Old kernels get fixes, never functionality.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by crashoverride » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:00 am

OverSun wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:25 am
I really don't wanna arguing.
Its completely understandable that different people will have different needs.

For completeness, I will also state that N2 should be able to run mainline today. Just the like the C2, it should (not yet confirmed) support hardware virtualization for virtual machines. With 4GB, there is plenty of room for a VM running mainline kernel. We can have the best of both worlds on N2: fully featured vendor kernel and cutting edge mainline kernel in a VM. The LTS patched vendor kernel ensures "security" while the mainline VM provides new features.

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by elatllat » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:04 am

I'm happy to see many approving of mainlining. In this regard the N2 may (hopefully only temporarily) be a step down from the N1.
The last thing SBC users want is to throw out a device when the vendor stops back-porting security patches for a product they no longer sell (2023?).

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Re: ODROID-N2

Unread post by odroid » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:59 am

There are too many different topics on a single thread.
So I have to lock it now.

Feel free to create your own topic.

Locked

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