H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

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debussy1979
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H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by debussy1979 »

I receive two days ago the new revision of H2, H2+, and I have troubles with power delivered to HDDs. It has not enough power to feed two Seagate 2 TB HDDs. If I connect one or other separatedly I have no troubles but if I connect the two the disks try to spin making a click forever without results. In BIOS says that no hard disks are present.

Is there any limitations about the power delivered by the board to hard disks??

Thanks

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

The SATA power rail output power is over 40Watt and there will be no such issue.

Which power supply do you use? Is it our official 15V/4A PSU? https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/15v-4a- ... y-eu-plug/
Which HDDs do you connect? Let us know the exact model name to find the datasheet.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by debussy1979 »

I use the official power supply and SATA cables. My disks are Seagate Barracuda ST200DM006. The specs say that needs 2.5 A to spin up but confirm that info. As I can see in the Odroid datasheet it can supply 6A at 12V. Let me info, please. If that limitation is important I think it will be noticed in the web to know it before buy.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

We will test some different HDD samples and double check the 12V rail output capability soon.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

We've just tested N2+ with two Seagate IronWolf Pro 7200rpm 12TB HDDs with the official 15V/4A PSU and there was no issue.
We will try buying two Barracuda ST2000DM006 HDDs for some tests very soon.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

We performed further tests.

The SATA 12V power rail circuit on the H2+ board could generate up to 5.8Amp which is very close to the design specification.
We measured the value with an electrical load tester and a lab power supply(200W). Yes, the H2+ hardware design looks okay.
But it is almost 70Watt while our official 15V/4A PSU maximum output peak power is 65Watt only.

Your Barracuda ST2000DM006 HDD requires 12V/2.5A for spinning up.
It is 30Watt and it will be 60Watt if we connect two HDDs.
H2+ needs around 10~15Watt for the normal CPU/GPU/DRAM operation.
They already exceed the power supply capability 65Watt and I guess your one of two HDDs couldn't spin up probably.

Therefore you might need a 80Watt(20V/4A) or 100Watt(20V/5A) PSU to solve the the power beefy HDD issue.
We will test the ordered ST2000DM006 HDDs early next week with a larger PSU to make sure.
Please be patient a few more days.

Note that we have over 10 different HDD samples in our lab and all of them has 2.0Amp or much less peak current.
This is our first time to meet a 2.5Amp HDD. Please understand our limited test capability.
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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by debussy1979 »

You can confirm me that a more powered power supply can be power the hard disks or exists a circuit that limit this. I see in the specs of H2+ that 12 V rail that power the SATA ports is limited to 6A. I can buy a more power power supply but I need to confirm that this are going to resolve the issue before. I dont wanna waste money for nothing. I also surprissed to be that those hard disks need so much power to spin up. I can see in BIOS the option to no spin in the boot. Not exists any option to spin them with a time interval between gthem?? If this exists can be a solution.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

Since the two SATA power rail is connected internally, there is no way to adjust the interval time unfortunately.

BTW, we've just received ST2000DM006 2.5Amp HDDs and tested.
We could reproduce the issue with the stock 60W PSU.
One of two HDDs didn't work from time to time with the PSU.

But the problem was gone when we replaced the PSU with a larger 90W one.
19V 4.7A PSU with a 5.5mmx2.5mm barrel plug seems to be easy to find in the market.
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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by debussy1979 »

I bought yesterday a PSU with 19V 4.7A and the hard disk don't spin up. It's very frustrating really.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by misaz »

debussy1979 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:55 pm
I bought yesterday a PSU with 19V 4.7A and the hard disk don't spin up. It's very frustrating really.
Can you chcek if this disk is working in another computer or when it is powered using external power suply? Does this disk work when second one is disconnected?

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

debussy1979 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:55 pm
I bought yesterday a PSU with 19V 4.7A and the hard disk don't spin up. It's very frustrating really.
Can you give me link of the 90W PSU?
We will double check its actual output power capability if possible.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by debussy1979 »

odroid wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:45 pm
debussy1979 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:55 pm
I bought yesterday a PSU with 19V 4.7A and the hard disk don't spin up. It's very frustrating really.
Can you give me link of the 90W PSU?
We will double check its actual output power capability if possible.
I bought it from a local shop, not Internet. It power down when I connect the two hard disk, I suppose that under overcurrent, a protection.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by debussy1979 »

misaz wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:59 pm
debussy1979 wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:55 pm
I bought yesterday a PSU with 19V 4.7A and the hard disk don't spin up. It's very frustrating really.
Can you chcek if this disk is working in another computer or when it is powered using external power suply? Does this disk work when second one is disconnected?
The disks was retired from a working computer. And yes, if I connect one or the other not the two at the same time they work without troubles. Is a power problem sure.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

As I told you, there was no issue once we connected a 90W PSU.
odroid wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:39 am
But the problem was gone when we replaced the PSU with a larger 90W one.
19V 4.7A PSU with a 5.5mmx2.5mm barrel plug seems to be easy to find in the market.
Can you show me a picture of the label on your new PSU?

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by debussy1979 »

odroid wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:03 pm
As I told you, there was no issue once we connected a 90W PSU.
odroid wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:39 am
But the problem was gone when we replaced the PSU with a larger 90W one.
19V 4.7A PSU with a 5.5mmx2.5mm barrel plug seems to be easy to find in the market.
Can you show me a picture of the label on your new PSU?
IMG-20200702-WA0001.jpg
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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

It looks fine. But I have no idea what's wrong at this moment.
I just guess the PSU actual output power could be lower than the spec or your old HDDs eat more power than the spec.

Anyway, we will send you a tested 90W PSU early next week.
Send me your order number via PM if you purchased your H2+ board from our web-store directly.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by debussy1979 »

odroid wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:16 am
It looks fine. But I have no idea what's wrong at this moment.
I just guess the PSU actual output power could be lower than the spec or your old HDDs eat more power than the spec.

Anyway, we will send you a tested 90W PSU early next week.
Send me your order number via PM if you purchased your H2+ board from our web-store directly.
One thing more that can be it's the Odroid power rail tolerance of components. I don't really understand the electronic behind it but is an option too. I guess.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by domih »

Out of curiosity I tried an H2+ with the 15V/4A power brick with 2 x SATA 10TB HGST He10 (HUH721010ALE604), during boot the max power measured at the wall was 55.5W during boot (and 52.2W 2nd test). HDD label says: 5VDC:0.40A and 12VDC:0.55A. In addition to the disks: mouse + KB + LED power button. So if I were to use such a configuration, yes I would switch to a 19V/4.74A power brick to feel comfortable.

I did not test heavy disk usage once started up, nor spinning down and up the disks while running heavy processing duties.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by gdymek »

I have the same problem. I have Odroid H2+ M.2 drive and two seagate 8TG drives (ST8000DM004-2C).
1. When I connect SATA drive A using sata data A cable and sata power cable A to port 1, disk is detected
2. When I connect SATA drive B usign sata data B cable and sata power cable B to port 2, disk is detected
3. When I connect both disks, once first disk is detected, once the another one.
4. If I connect SATA drive A using sata cable A and sata power cable A to port 1 or 2 and leave connected sata power cable B to drive B, once disk A is detected once not.
So it looks like power supply problem.
I will try to use 10A regulated laboratory power supply and will see will it help, but first I need to buy power plug that fits to odroid H2, and solder power cord.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

@debussy1979 already confirmed it worked fine with another good 90Watt PSU.

Consider using a thick wire when you connect the lab PSU to the H2+.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by gdymek »

I have used regulated 10A lab PSU, and it does not solve the problem. The only difference to oryginal 15V/4A PSU was that:
1. If I start odroid with 2 HDD, wait until they spin up
2. Press fast power button twice (HDD can not stop spinning)
3. Then both HDD was always detected.
With oryginal 15V/4A PSU it does not help.
The problem was solved when I increase supply voltage to min 16.5V. I suppose the problem is at output capacitor value at step-down converter, that supplies HDDs. I think odroid uses typical application of some IC step-down converter driver. HDDs has motors which are heavy inductive load (specially during spin up). Typical applications from datasheet usually assumes typical load (not heavy inductive), hence phase shift between current and voltage is to high. Higher output capacitor value or higher switching frequency for step-down converter could solve this problem, but it requires changes at ODROID board. Increase input voltage is simpler, then output capacitor will not be discharged below critical value.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by domih »

"...The problem was solved when I increase supply voltage to min 16.5V..." Yes, as mentioned earlier, elsewhere in the forums and wiki, you can push to 19V to reduce the amps and still get 90W.

Alternative: you make your own cables and power the HDDs and board separately from an ATX/SFX PSU(*). In doing the 12V of the board is not overwhelmed and you can have as many HDDs as you want (e.g. also using a SATA multiplexer for more then 2 disks.

(*) provided the H2+ board does not power HDDs, it will work OK with 12V (so you don't even need the original 15V/4A brick). In fact @tobetter wrote some time ago he had run the H2 with 9V only as long as you're not powering heavy devices from the board.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

Can you please measure the voltage on the 12V rail on the SATA power port while the system boots?

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by gdymek »

odroid wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:26 am
Can you please measure the voltage on the 12V rail on the SATA power port while the system boots?
Unfortunately I do not have oscilloscope, hence I can not provide accurate values. But when I was measure using multimeter, the values are:
1. When I am using odroid 15V/4A PSU. Stable voltage at HDD 12V pin is 11.95V. During spin up I can observe drop to 11.78V
2. When I am using 18V/5A PSU. Stable voltage at HDD 12V pin is 12.05V. During spin up I can observe drop to 11.89V
Sample period for my multimeter is most probably 0.5s, hence these values tells only that voltage drops.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

Thank you for the information.
I think too a generic DMM couldn't capture a short period of voltage drop.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by tobi »

I got a similar problem with the recommended power supply (15V/4A). I tried to power two Seagate IronWolf 3.5 NAS HDDs. Unfortunately the drives are not able to spin up and the system is not able to start. I got all the original Hardkernel accessories. I already measured the voltage on the DC plug after connecting a 60W DC load. It breaks down a bit to appr. 14.6 volts but nothing to worry about. @odroid I got an oscilloscope, is there something you want me to measure?

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by odroid »

As we and other users tested, some Seagate HDDs take a lot of energy when the disks spin up and the system requires more power than 60W.
So you have to use a bigger PSU like 90W instead of 60W. Sorry about that.

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Re: H2+ not enough power to spin to HDDs

Post by tobi »

I got a 78W power supply which works at 16V. So far there are no problems with this one.
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