Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

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TOMillr
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Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

I'm unable to replicate the idle power consumption measurements that Hardkernel presents on the product page of the H4+. With the bios values reset to default and running Ubuntu Server headless, the H4+ never goes below 6,7 W or C3-state when idle.

H4+
Samsung 16GB DDR5-5600 SO-DIMM
WD Red SA500 SATA SSD
Leicke 60W 12V 5A PSU

Ubuntu Server 24.04
Ethernet cable plugged in
no HDMI or USB device connected

Image
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Image
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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by fvolk »

TOMillr wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 12:19 am
With the bios values reset to default
Read section "Idle Power Characteristics for Headless Server" at https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-h4/

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

Update:
With ASPM autoconfig in the bios switched from "disabled" to "auto", the idle power consumption only drops down to 6,6W. C-states still don't do down below C3.

Edit:
Some of the internal components of the H4+ are listed as "ASPM not supported":

Code: Select all

sudo lspci -vv | awk '/ASPM/{print $0}' RS= | grep --color -P '(^[a-z0-9:.]+|ASPM )'
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54ba (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
		LnkCap:	Port #3, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM not supported
		LnkCtl:	ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54bb (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
		LnkCap:	Port #4, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM not supported
		LnkCtl:	ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
00:1c.6 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54be (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
		LnkCap:	Port #7, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM not supported
		LnkCtl:	ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
01:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
		LnkCap:	Port #0, Speed 5GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 <4us
		LnkCtl:	ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
		LnkCap:	Port #0, Speed 5GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 <4us
		LnkCtl:	ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
03:00.0 SATA controller: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1064 Serial ATA Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 01 [AHCI 1.0])
		LnkCap:	Port #0, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <4us, L1 <64us
		LnkCtl:	ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
Last edited by TOMillr on Thu May 16, 2024 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

@fvolk:
That's actually the part I was referring to above.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by odroid »

It is very weird.
When we tested the power consumption in headless idle state of H4+ with Ubuntu 24.04 running on an eMMC, C10-state was over 90%, and when we measured the power with DC power source, it was about 2.5Watt.

Can you check your BIOS settings menu first?
You should configure each of the four separated PCIe port sub menus.
ASPM must be set to Auto for each PCIe 3, 4, 7, and 9 port.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by neal »

Hi @TOMillr,

I made the setup as possible as close to your H4+.

- H4+
- Samsung 32GB DDR5-4800 SO-DIMM
- Samsung SSD 850 EVO via SATA interface ( Ubuntu Server 24.04 booting from this HDD ).
- Smart power 3 with 60W power supply https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/15v-4a- ... y-eu-plug/
- Ubuntu Server 24.04
- One Ethernet active to the internet.
- No HDMI or USB devices connected.

In my H4+ appeared the power consumption picture below while it was Idle state.
H4+_IdlePowerC_pic.jpg
H4+_IdlePowerC_pic.jpg (132.15 KiB) Viewed 409 times
And the powertop C states.
H4+_Idlepowertop_sc.jpg
H4+_Idlepowertop_sc.jpg (59.4 KiB) Viewed 409 times

Code: Select all

root@h4p:~# uname -a
Linux h4p 6.8.0-31-generic #31-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Sat Apr 20 00:40:06 UTC 2024 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
root@h4p:~# lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Ubuntu
Description:    Ubuntu 24.04 LTS
Release:        24.04
Codename:       noble
root@h4p:~# lspci -vv | awk '/ASPM/{print $0}' RS= | grep --color -P '(^[a-z0-9:.]+|ASPM )'
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54ba (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
                LnkCap: Port #3, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <1us, L1 <16us
                LnkCtl: ASPM L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54bb (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
                LnkCap: Port #4, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <1us, L1 <16us
                LnkCtl: ASPM L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
00:1c.6 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54be (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
                LnkCap: Port #7, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <1us, L1 <16us
                LnkCtl: ASPM L0s L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
01:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
                LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 5GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 <4us
                LnkCtl: ASPM L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
                LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 5GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 <4us
                LnkCtl: ASPM L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
03:00.0 SATA controller: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1064 Serial ATA Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 01 [AHCI 1.0])
                LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <4us, L1 <64us
                LnkCtl: ASPM L0s L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
root@h4p:~#
Can you check your BIOS settings menu first?
You should configure each of the four separated PCIe port sub menus.
ASPM must be set to Auto for each PCIe 3, 4, 7, and 9 port.
Please check it again.

Plus, If I change ASPM 'auto' to 'disabled' in BIOS, I got this output as you had.

Code: Select all

root@h4p:~# lspci -vv | awk '/ASPM/{print $0}' RS= | grep --color -P '(^[a-z0-9:.]+|ASPM )'
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54ba (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
                LnkCap: Port #3, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM not supported
                LnkCtl: ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54bb (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
                LnkCap: Port #4, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM not supported
                LnkCtl: ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
00:1c.6 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54be (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
                LnkCap: Port #7, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM not supported
                LnkCtl: ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
01:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
                LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 5GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 <4us
                LnkCtl: ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
                LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 5GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 <4us
                LnkCtl: ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
03:00.0 SATA controller: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1064 Serial ATA Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 01 [AHCI 1.0])
                LnkCap: Port #0, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <4us, L1 <64us
                LnkCtl: ASPM Disabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
root@h4p:~#
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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by mctom »

The real question is how the power was measured and what was the accuracy of measurement method.
Those meters plugged into wall outlets are notoriously inaccurate at low currents.
It's easy to forget that resolution isn't accuracy.
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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

odroid wrote:
Thu May 16, 2024 10:49 am
Can you check your BIOS settings menu first?
You should configure each of the four separated PCIe port sub menus.
ASPM must be set to Auto for each PCIe 3, 4, 7, and 9 port.
My bad! I did indeed missed those options for individual PCIe ports! After setting ports 3, 4, 7 and 9 to "auto", ASPM is enabled and power consumption is down to 3,9 w.

Code: Select all

lspci -vv | awk '/ASPM/{print $0}' RS= | grep --color -P '(^[a-z0-9:.]+|ASPM )'
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54ba (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
		LnkCap:	Port #3, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <1us, L1 <16us
		LnkCtl:	ASPM L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54bb (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
		LnkCap:	Port #4, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <1us, L1 <16us
		LnkCtl:	ASPM L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
00:1c.6 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Device 54be (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
		LnkCap:	Port #7, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <1us, L1 <16us
		LnkCtl:	ASPM L0s L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
01:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
		LnkCap:	Port #0, Speed 5GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 <4us
		LnkCtl:	ASPM L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Controller I226-V (rev 04)
		LnkCap:	Port #0, Speed 5GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L1, Exit Latency L1 <4us
		LnkCtl:	ASPM L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
03:00.0 SATA controller: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1064 Serial ATA Controller (rev 02) (prog-if 01 [AHCI 1.0])
		LnkCap:	Port #0, Speed 8GT/s, Width x1, ASPM L0s L1, Exit Latency L0s <4us, L1 <64us
		LnkCtl:	ASPM L0s L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+
C-states go down to C8 - but not all the way to C10.

Image

@hardkernel:
Did you tweak any other setting in the bios or with powertop to get down to c10? Or could this be a result of running the system from the SATA SSD instead of an NVME like in your setup? How about this "Enable ACPI Auto Configuration" value for example?

Image

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by odroid »

TOMillr wrote:
Fri May 17, 2024 12:33 am
down to 3,9 w.
Good.
It is very close to Neal's test result if we consider the AC-DC PSU efficiency and the tolerance of your AC power meter.

AFAIK, the ACPI feature is not related to the C-states behaviors.
Neal will check with an NVMe storage to see if SATA device is preventing from entering the C-10 state or not.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by neal »

Neal will check with an NVMe storage to see if SATA device is preventing from entering the C-10 state or not.
Changing boot media to NVMe storage is the same behavior. It was C8 (pc8) state over 90%, nothing in c10 (pc10) state.
Ubuntu 24.04 server has never showed to get down to c10, even I tried eMMC with the same conditions. But, I think the power consumption in idle mode looks the same.

It was I have gotten c10 state 97.7%.
H4+_Idlepowertop_sc_22.04.4.jpg
H4+_Idlepowertop_sc_22.04.4.jpg (77.51 KiB) Viewed 361 times

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by odroid »

@Neal,
Thank you for sharing the test result.
It's strange that eMMC also showed a similar C-state behavior.
I think it is necessary to install Ubuntu 24.04 Gnome Desktop on the SATA storage device and check the C10 state.
Please consider testing it early next week.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

I've done some more testing and I'm having trouble with powertop.

Running powertop with the "--auto-tune"-option, I can get the power consumption down to around 3.1 W. Unfortunately, I can't check how this affects c-states, as I'm no longer able to start powertop after once running the autoconfig option through SSH. Running "sudo powertop" just clears the screen and can locks my SSH connection. Only after a manual reboot am I able to access the system via SSH again.

EDIT:
This seems to be a bug in in the device driver of the Intel i226V:
https://github.com/fenrus75/powertop/issues/143

EDIT2:
Could you maybe file a bug report to get this bug fixed in the kernel driver?
Last edited by TOMillr on Mon May 20, 2024 1:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

Another thing I've noticed:

Even though wake-on-lan is disabled in the bios, the H4+ still draws around 0.9 W when I shutdown the system with a shutdown-call over SSH. Tested this with two different power meters which give me 0.9 Wand 1.0 W respectively . When I unplug the PSU from the H4+ board, the reading goes down to 0.0 W.

Are there different ACPI powerstates (Soft Off vs Mechanical Off) I still have to set? Or is it caused by the Leicke PSU I'm using?

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by mctom »

TOMillr wrote:
Mon May 20, 2024 12:15 am
Tested this with two different power meters which give me 0.9 Wand 1.0 W respectively . When I unplug the PSU from the H4+ board, the reading goes down to 0.0 W.
This still doesn't mean your measurements are correct. PSU at 1W might as well have 20% efficiency, in which case H4+ draws 0.2W.
Efficiency isn't constant and drops sharply at low output currents.
Not to mention accuracy of power meters at 3mA AC :roll:

In order to measure H4+ power correctly you should measure DC voltage and current reaching H4+.
Smart Power 3 is still on 50% discount, consider getting this if you seriously want to work on sub-watt power savings:
https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/smartpower-iii/
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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by neal »

I think it is necessary to install Ubuntu 24.04 Gnome Desktop on the SATA storage device and check the C10 state.
Ubuntu 24.04 ( Kernel 6.8.0-31-generic ) with SATA SSD is no differences. ( C8 state was 93.7% and nothing in C10 state )
Ubuntu 24.04 ( Kernel 6.8.0-31-generic ) with eMMC is also no differences. ( C8 state was 96.6% and nothing in C10 state )

Two cases had similar results about C state. But the with eMMC is more ( 30mW ~ 60mW ) down in Idle Power Consumption measured Smart Power 3.
Running powertop with the "--auto-tune"-option, I can get the power consumption down to around 3.1 W. Unfortunately, I can't check how this affects c-states, as I'm no longer able to start powertop after once running the autoconfig option through SSH. Running "sudo powertop" just clears the screen and can locks my SSH connection. Only after a manual reboot am I able to access the system via SSH again.
The powertop command with "--auto-tune" option make from "on" to "auto" in file /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:01:00.0/power/control file.
0000:01:00.0 symlink is to link 1st NIC I226-V node. And I can't figure out what they relevant each other.
I just guess there is not live together either the igc kernel driver and the powertop "--auto-turn" option.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

The maintainer of powertop points to a bug in the kernel driver that causes the problems with the I226-V. He mentions, that a bug report should be filed over at bugzilla.kernel.org to maybe get this fixed.

https://github.com/fenrus75/powertop/is ... 2119272128

I've noticed that Intel itself provides a dedicated Linux driver for the I226-V. Maybe that driver doesn't suffer from the same bug as the kernel driver?

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... -pack.html
mctom wrote:
Mon May 20, 2024 12:52 am
This still doesn't mean your measurements are correct.
I'm aware that the exact value measured by the device is probably not precise enough. However, the readings should be fine to do a relative comparison. When two of my power meters show the a power consumption of around 0,9 W and 1 W when the H4+ is completely turned off, yet on a Raspberry Pie or Intel NUC the value goes down to 0, is suggests to me that the H4+ is somehow drawing more power compared to the other devices.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by odroid »

TOMillr wrote:
Mon May 20, 2024 8:02 pm
When two of my power meters show the a power consumption of around 0,9 W and 1 W when the H4+ is completely turned off,
It must be less than 0.5Wat.
Which devices did you connect to your H4+ when you measured it?
Some 5Volt power rails of the H4 series have an always-on characteristic, so power consumption may vary depending on the connected device in power-off or suspend(sleep) state.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

odroid wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 9:15 am
Which devices did you connect to your H4+ when you measured it?
Some 5Volt power rails of the H4 series have an always-on characteristic, so power consumption may vary depending on the connected device in power-off or suspend(sleep) state.
I'm currently testing the H4+ headless. So there was only the ethernet cable connected to it. The wake-on-lan feature was disabled in the bios though.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by odroid »

Thank you for the answer.
We will try find which devices on the board still consumes some power at the power-off state.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

How about the mentioned power management bug in the Intel I226-V driver? Could you replicate my observations as well?

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by fvolk »

odroid wrote:
Tue May 21, 2024 3:19 pm
We will try find which devices on the board still consumes some power at the power-off state.
We already had a related discussion with wake-on-LAN.
When coming from a hard power off WOL does not work, however when shutting down and keeping power connected WOL works.

So.... something must be still active and listening on the network interface for WOL to work, for that a tiny bit of power use would be expected.
When coming from hard power off, nothing is listening for WOL, so no power is consumed - would also make sense.

See that thread: viewtopic.php?f=173&t=47960
Maybe you also want to monitor power-use vs. WOL works in your investigation?

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by odroid »

@TOMillr & @fvolk
Since the relevant engineers are currently on vacation, we will look into two issues next week.

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by fvolk »

odroid wrote:
Wed May 22, 2024 9:38 am
@TOMillr & @fvolk
Since the relevant engineers are currently on vacation, we will look into two issues next week.
Not to cause confusion, I linked to the discussion with older H series and do NOT know about current H4 (I don't own one to try) - but maybe H2/H3/H4 have some similar behaviour?

Have a good vacation! :-)

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by TOMillr »

Just to add some more data points for comparisons, I've tried the 15V and 19V PSU available from the official store. Power measurements are roughly comparable:

Official 15V 4A
1.1W - 1.4W (hard power off)
3.9W - 4.4W (idle)
0.3W - 0.8W (system shut down after one boot cycle)

Official 19V 7A
1.4W - 1.6W (hard power off)
4.3W - 4.5W (idle)
0.3W - 0.9W (system shut down after one boot cycle)

Leicke 12V 5A
1.1W - 1.3W (hard power off)
3.7W - 4.1W (idle)
0.3W - 0.7W (system shut down after one boot cycle)

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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by mctom »

And how do you interpret 0.3 - 0.9W?
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Re: Unable to match H4+ idle power values given by Hardkernel

Post by odroid »

@TOMillr, Thanks for sharing your interesting test results.

When the load is light and the voltage difference is large, the conversion efficiency seems to decrease.
I wonder if there is still a big difference between 15V PSU and 19V PSU during heavy computing.

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