eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

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NateroniPizza
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eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by NateroniPizza »

Hello all,

In the interest of saving the M.2 slot and SATA ports for other storage, I'm looking at the option of using the eMMC for the OS.

On the webpage for the eMMC, it's saying you need one of those eMMC accessories to put an OS on it. Just wanted to make sure I'm fully understanding this - can these not simply be used like any other SSD/HDD, where you boot from a flash drive and select it as the drive the OS will be installed on?

Thank you

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mad_ady »

On the H2/H3 you can use the emmc as a regular storage - most OSes see it "as an sd card". You don't need the adapter to flash it, since on the H2/H3 you can boot from a usb installation disk.
If you want to install windows on the emmc, you may need to load additional drivers so the installer can see it - there's an older thread for H2 on how to do it.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by xnd »

I'm wondering what are speeds on eMMC? It's faster than SD/microSD cards, right? But it's comparable to SATA SSD?

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by NateroniPizza »

mad_ady wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:32 pm
On the H2/H3 you can use the emmc as a regular storage - most OSes see it "as an sd card". You don't need the adapter to flash it, since on the H2/H3 you can boot from a usb installation disk.
If you want to install windows on the emmc, you may need to load additional drivers so the installer can see it - there's an older thread for H2 on how to do it.
Perfect, thank you! Just ordered one.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by NateroniPizza »

xnd wrote:
Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:22 pm
I'm wondering what are speeds on eMMC? It's faster than SD/microSD cards, right? But it's comparable to SATA SSD?
150 MB/s read, 125 MB/s write, according to Ameridroid product page (https://ameridroid.com/products/emmc-mo ... 5ea0&_ss=r).

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mad_ady »

Speed depends on emmc size, because the chips are written to in parallel.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

I installed Debian on an eMMC but cannot figure out how to boot off of it. There was an option to use UEFI for the disk that showed up when I was partitioning the eMMC card. I said yes to that option. Perhaps that was a mistake? When I go to the Boot tab in the BIOS, I see several boot devices listed but don't see how to select the eMMC disk.

How do I boot my H3+ from the UEFI disk? Is my problem somehow related to selecting UEFI and if so, how do I undo that?

Thanks, Michael

Image
2023-01-24 ODROID H3+ Boot.png
2023-01-24 ODROID H3+ Boot.png (1.07 MiB) Viewed 302 times

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mad_ady »

So debian was installed to gpt partitions, right? Did the installer create a EFI System partition? (small, about 128MB in size)

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

Thank mad_ady. I am not sure if a gpt partition table was used or not or the exact layout of the partitions. I can mount the eMMC disk in another computer and see what the partition table looks like. My memory is that several partitions were configured automatically and that I said to use one partition for the operating system and user space. It will be eight hours until I am back in the same location as the ODRIOD-H3+.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mad_ady »

Only GPT partitions support uefi boot.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by fvolk »

mad_ady wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:47 am
Only GPT partitions support uefi boot.
I do not believe that. For example an USB stick:

Code: Select all

# fdisk -l /dev/sdb

Disk /dev/sdb: 29,44 GiB, 31608274944 bytes, 61734912 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos

Device     Boot Start      End  Sectors  Size Id Type
/dev/sdb1        2048    81919    79872   39M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/sdb2       81920 61734911 61652992 29,4G 83 Linux

# gdisk -l /dev/sdb
GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 1.0.9

Partition table scan:
  MBR: MBR only
  BSD: not present
  APM: not present
  GPT: not present
sdb1 contains:
/EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI

Although the H3 BIOS may not support every possible case...

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

Here is what I found

Code: Select all

root@helium:/var/log.hdd/atop# fdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0
Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 29.12 GiB, 31268536320 bytes, 61071360 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: gpt
Disk identifier: 16DE4F1D-2D38-445F-8474-146C76158747

Device            Start      End  Sectors  Size Type
/dev/mmcblk0p1     2048  1050623  1048576  512M EFI System
/dev/mmcblk0p2  1050624 59070463 58019840 27.7G Linux filesystem
/dev/mmcblk0p3 59070464 61069311  1998848  976M Linux swap
Here is a listing of EFI System files.

Code: Select all

root@helium:/var/log.hdd/atop# mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /new
ls -lR /new
/new:
total 4
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jan 23 20:37 EFI

/new/EFI:
total 4
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 23 20:37 debian

/new/EFI/debian:
total 5892
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root     108 Jan 23 22:46 BOOTX64.CSV
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root   84648 Jan 23 22:46 fbx64.efi
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root     117 Jan 23 22:46 grub.cfg
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4150720 Jan 23 22:46 grubx64.efi
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  845480 Jan 23 22:46 mmx64.efi
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root  934240 Jan 23 22:46 shimx64.efi

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by odroid »

Which Debian ISO image did you use?
We could install and boot from an eMMC module when we used Ubuntu 22.04.1 ISO image.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

The label on my USB disk says that it is Debian 64bit installer with non-free drivers, Sept 18, 2022 Version 11.5.0 Bullseye amd64.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by odroid »

It looks fine but I have no idea what is a real root cause.
I hope other Debian users give us some hints.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

Thanks. Are there any BIOS settings that I should check to make sure they are properly set? Maybe the Security or Boot BIOS tabs?

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by odroid »

No.
Ubuntu 22.04.1 booted fine from an eMMC with default BIOS settings.

We will double check it tomorrow.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

I flashed a USB thumb disk with Ubuntu 22.04.1, installed Ubuntu, and ended up in the same place I was with my Debian install. The Ubuntu 22.04.1 instance on my 32 GB eMMC does not boot. Instead, the machine comes up into the BIOS settings. The contents of the boot tab of the BIOS appears to be the same with Ubuntu as it was with Debian.

Code: Select all

-rw-rw-r-- 1 michael michael 3826831360 Jan 24 19:29  ubuntu-22.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso
Maybe I have somehow messed up a BIOS setting. Are there any particular BIOS settings I should check or is there a switch on the ODROID-H3+ that needs to be in a particular position to boot off of the eMMC disk?

Thanks for the help.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

I found the eMMC Connection Check in BIOS https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-h3/hardw ... mc_on_bios page. It appears that somehow my eMMC is not connected with my H3+. The advanced "SDIO Configuration" BIOS screen on my ODROID-H3+ looks like the second image on the link above. I do not see any eMMC storage devices.

Strange, I was able to install Debian and Ubuntu on my 32 GByte eMMC but I can't see it on the BIOS Advanced => SDIO Configuration BIOS page.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to fix my ODROID-H3+ so it sees my eMMC disk?

Thanks, Michael

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by odroid »

Hold on. We are checking eMMC functions on the latest BIOS 1.11.

Meanwhile, unplug and plug the eMMC module again. You might hear a click sound if the connection is fine.
Since the eMMC module is not a hot-plug device, please turn the system off before reseating.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

Thanks for the help. I reseated the eMMC card and still see the BIOS screen when I try and boot. The BIOS is not seeing the eMMC disk at boot time. However, I am able to install an OS on the eMMC disk so some part of the BIOS appears to be working and the eMMC is connected well enough for it to be written to.

In case it helps, I bought the ODROID-H3+ on January 13 from Hardkernel. Here is a screenshot of the BIOS screen with version information.

Image
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Screenshot 2023-01-25 ODROID BIOS.png
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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mad_ady »

Though it probably won't fix the issue, try updating the BIOS to 1.11. You're on 1.09 currently. See the wiki for details.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by neal »

mschuh wrote:
Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:02 pm
I found the eMMC Connection Check in BIOS https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-h3/hardw ... mc_on_bios page. It appears that somehow my eMMC is not connected with my H3+. The advanced "SDIO Configuration" BIOS screen on my ODROID-H3+ looks like the second image on the link above. I do not see any eMMC storage devices.

Strange, I was able to install Debian and Ubuntu on my 32 GByte eMMC but I can't see it on the BIOS Advanced => SDIO Configuration BIOS page.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to fix my ODROID-H3+ so it sees my eMMC disk?

Thanks, Michael
Please try the below and let me know if you can see your emmc on the BIOS Advanced => SDIO Configuration BIOS page.

1. Can you update the Bios version to 1.11 latest from 1.09 as @mad_ady suggested?
2. Try the following steps
- Remove power and the RTC/CMOS backup battery
- Remove all of the storage devices except the eMMC
- Connect the DC plug and go and check on BIOS whether you can see your eMMC or not
- If you can see the eMMC on BIOS, connect the RTC backup battery

Could I know where your eMMC purchase ?

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

I think I purchased the eMMC from Ameridroid several years ago. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago.

I installed 1.11 and followed all of your directions carefully. I am still unable to see the eMMC on the SDIO Configuration screen and cannot boot from it.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by neal »

mschuh wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:31 pm
I think I purchased the eMMC from Ameridroid several years ago. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago.

I installed 1.11 and followed all of your directions carefully. I am still unable to see the eMMC on the SDIO Configuration screen and cannot boot from it.
Do you have another eMMC to try?
I want to know which one is caused. H3 or eMMC?

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by odroid »

mschuh wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:31 pm
I think I purchased the eMMC from Ameridroid several years ago. Maybe 4 or 5 years ago.
What is the PCB color of the eMMC module? Is it Orange?
https://wiki.odroid.com/accessory/emmc/ ... mmc_module

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

Here is a picture of my eMMC disk.
Image

I booted the USB Ubuntu installation OS and mounted first partition on the eMMC disk and was able to view the files. It looks like installing Ubuntu on the eMMC worked fine.
Attachments
2023-01-25 eMMC.jpg
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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

It looks like my eMMC is one of these: https://ameridroid.com/products/emmc-5- ... 399b&_ss=r

Code: Select all

High quality storage from San-Disk
JEDEC/MMCA Version 5.1: HS400 interface with 8bit DDR mode

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mad_ady »

Well, as a workaround, you could leave a usb stick permanently connected (usb2 is fine), and when partitioning, create the efi partition on it instead of on the emmc. It may need to be formatted gpt. It will be used only on boot, to load grub.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by odroid »

The white eMMC module is not our product which might not be fully compatible with ODROID-H3/H3+ boards.
Contact @ameridroid to complain the issue and purchase our Orange eMMC modue.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by Ameridroid »

Yes, the white eMMC is a problem with the H-series from Hardkernel. It says so on the eMMC page: "Not recommended for ODROID-H Series and C4."

We only recommend Hardkernel eMMCs for ODROID products.

One thing you can do to test is to put a piece of electrical tape over the entire back of the eMMC module and see if the problem continues.

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Re: eMMC - Works Like Normal Drive?

Post by mschuh »

mad_adv, odroid, and Ameridroid, thank you very much for all of the help, information, and suggestions.

I taped the back side of the eMMC card and this did not help. The ODROID-H3+ still starts up in the BIOS and I am still unable to see the eMMC on the SDIO Configuration screen.

I am going to try setting up a USB thumb disk for booting like mad_adv suggested. This is a good suggestion and I bet that this will work. If this does not work, I will buy a M.2 NVMe storage disk. I bet that a M.2 NVMe storage disk will work.

Thanks again for all of the help.

2023-01-26 eMMC taped.png
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