Re: Sold Out

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by veveaucent » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:38 am

In your previous thread you mentioned Intel could give you a firm production schedule in January. Did you have any luck with that or is the next production run still in limbo?

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by rooted » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:05 am

Odroid stated March somewhere on the forum, not sure how solid that is currently.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by jit-010101 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:59 am

Back in november:

"we have a very SMALL problem"

Now we're 4 months in, february, and they still have no exact date - let alone units.

I guess the MSI CEO wasn't kidding expecting the supply shortage to take the whole of 2019.

I hope Hardkernel switches to AMD the next time they'll consider an x86 SBC.

Edit:

Intel CEO confirms tight supply till at least mid 2019:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/2 ... inancials/

So I guess end of 2019 is confirmed (not related to H2 but overall supply).

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by Trupik » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:07 pm

I hate Intel! ;)
I'm working on project where H2 can be perfect device, but... :(

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by tmihai20 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:03 pm

I started coming the forums to see if there is anybody in the EU that is selling theirs. I already missed 2 opportunities, even if the case was not the one that I wanted (Case Type 1).
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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by nsummy » Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:45 am

jit-010101 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:59 am
Back in november:

"we have a very SMALL problem"

Now we're 4 months in, february, and they still have no exact date - let alone units.

I guess the MSI CEO wasn't kidding expecting the supply shortage to take the whole of 2019.

I hope Hardkernel switches to AMD the next time they'll consider an x86 SBC.

Edit:

Intel CEO confirms tight supply till at least mid 2019:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/2 ... inancials/

So I guess end of 2019 is confirmed (not related to H2 but overall supply).
If you think AMD would be a better choice I urge you to check out the Udoo Bolt and its delays :)
I don't think anyone could have predicted there would be an Intel shortage

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by ratzee » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:52 pm

sellng my odroid h2 with 8GB ram and 256GB nvme
$500 :)

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by hominoid » Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:49 pm

nsummy wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:45 am
If you think AMD would be a better choice I urge you to check out the Udoo Bolt and its delays :)
I don't think anyone could have predicted there would be an Intel shortage
I don't know for sure, but I get the impression that the Udoo Bolt's delays are not from AMD shortages. They seem to have some project management/planning issues, not to speak of their very poor communication to their supporters. I would love to see a AMD 2400G or even 2200G Odroid! Please...H3??

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by rooted » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:32 am


hominoid wrote: I would love to see a AMD 2400G or even 2200G Odroid! Please...H3??
I agree, or as an H2 Pro.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by fvolk » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:48 am

In the 2200G/2400G space there is now the Asrock DeskMini A300 (https://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/DeskM ... /index.asp), launch in a few days.
But this is getting off-topic..

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by jit-010101 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:57 am

fvolk wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:48 am
In the 2200G/2400G space there is now the Asrock DeskMini A300 (https://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/DeskM ... /index.asp), launch in a few days.
But this is getting off-topic..
Yea well ... to be bought ... nowhere like most Mainboards and x86 SBCs in this form factor. B2B only. But hey ...

Hardkernel managed to fall into this spot as well and I guess its more or less the fault of both Intel and AMD that they both dont support / give B2C models any room to breath for whatever reason ...

That said I find the silence from Hardkernel a bit discouraging. Looking that they initially said they'd get an firm schedule from Intel in January.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by fvolk » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:16 pm

The Intel-based DeskMini 110/310 series is widely available just like any other consumer PC hardware.
The AMD-based A300 is brand new and not-yet available.
See the attached photos, a DeskMini compared to a H2 in size.
With the DeskMini series you get mainboard+nice case+power supply. So this SFF PC market is taken, with Asrock's economics of scale and distribution network that Hardkernel hardly can match. For Hardkernel to theoretically make an AMD-based product it can only go for smaller/weaker/cheaper than the DeskMinis, questions is what market is there?
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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by nikgre » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:28 am

It's mid February, getting onto late February. Still no news?

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by veveaucent » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:13 am

I have 2 Deskminis and an Odroid XU4, I've opted away from using the second deskmini as a NAS for several reasons and will be selling it. First it is actively cooled. Second it does not support 3.5 HDDs. Third it has a much larger power draw than an ARM based SBC or the H2. Friendlyarm just released a SATA HAT for their nanopi M4 and I'm very torn between getting that and waiting for the H2.

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by rooted » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:15 am


veveaucent wrote: Friendlyarm just released a SATA HAT for their nanopi M4 and I'm very torn between getting that and waiting for the H2.
If you need it within the next 3+ months I wouldn't wait (speculation).

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by odroid » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:28 am

We will have a meeting with Intel people in the middle of next week.
I hope there will be a good news but we we have no idea what will happen.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by Trupik » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:31 pm

odroid wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:28 am
We will have a meeting with Intel people in the middle of next week.
Don't let them go without good news! :mrgreen:

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by jit-010101 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:02 pm

Good luck @ HK. I'll guess I will try ExaGear desktop for x86 emulation on ARM together with possibly wine in the meantime (for my very limited x86 means ... cloud-backups).
veveaucent wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:13 am
I have 2 Deskminis and an Odroid XU4, I've opted away from using the second deskmini as a NAS for several reasons and will be selling it. First it is actively cooled. Second it does not support 3.5 HDDs. Third it has a much larger power draw than an ARM based SBC or the H2. Friendlyarm just released a SATA HAT for their nanopi M4 and I'm very torn between getting that and waiting for the H2.
Well that is a little big difference.

I can fit 4x Odroid H2 on an ATX board-size / adapter for example.

Also Hardkernel is knowdlegable when it comes to headless boards - sonething you find rarely in the x86 world.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by meveric » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:18 pm

If you want to use ExaGear and are not yet a customer you should be quick about it. ExaGear Desktop was discontinued and will no longer be available in a few days (from 28.02.).
Donate to support my work on the ODROID GameStation Turbo Image for U2/U3 XU3/XU4 X2 X C1 as well as many other releases.
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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by jit-010101 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:08 am

meveric wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:18 pm
If you want to use ExaGear and are not yet a customer you should be quick about it. ExaGear Desktop was discontinued and will no longer be available in a few days (from 28.02.).
OT:

Oh wow! F*cking thanks, its nowhere mentioned on their page.

Here's the link for the (hidden) lifetime-license purchase:

http://forum.eltechs.com/viewtopic.php?t=1609&p=3307

Do you happen to know if the Licenses are bound to the architecture? It doesn't seem to be that way ... figuring if I want to get ARMv8 or ARMv7 for the most compability.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by meveric » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:35 am

The Licenses shouldn't be bound to architecture.
And there is no "hidden" lifetime-license all licenses are lifetime licenses.
Donate to support my work on the ODROID GameStation Turbo Image for U2/U3 XU3/XU4 X2 X C1 as well as many other releases.
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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by jit-010101 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:42 pm

meveric wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:35 am
The Licenses shouldn't be bound to architecture.
And there is no "hidden" lifetime-license all licenses are lifetime licenses.
Hidden in regard that it's not listed on the regular page to be purchased anymore:

https://eltechs.com/product/exagear-des ... nd-prices/

SOLD OUT ... but they sent out a link where you can still purchase a license until feburar 28th:

https://eltechs.com/product/exagear-des ... es-final2/

I successfully purchased one for ARMv8 - do you happen to know if I have to activate my license before the 28th too? I still have to get LXC Debian Container running since I run my SBC on Arch ... not Debian.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by meveric » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:39 am

From what I heard you can still reactivate licenses later on, so I guess this applies for new licenses as well.
Donate to support my work on the ODROID GameStation Turbo Image for U2/U3 XU3/XU4 X2 X C1 as well as many other releases.
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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by RomaT » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:16 pm

odroid wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:28 am
We will have a meeting with Intel people in the middle of next week.
I hope there will be a good news but we we have no idea what will happen.
How was the meeting with Intel people?

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by odroid » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:29 pm

I'm about posting the meeting result.

Intel focuses on only Core i7 and i5 series in Q1 2019 to make more money.
They just told us there must be a chance to make some Celeron/Gemini Lake processors in Q2 April or May.
So we have to wait 2 or 3 more months to resume the H2 production.
Sorry for the bad news. :(

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by nikgre » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:13 pm

odroid wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:29 pm
I'm about posting the meeting result.

Intel focuses on only Core i7 and i5 series in Q1 2019 to make more money.
They just told us there must be a chance to make some Celeron/Gemini Lake processors in Q2 April or May.
So we have to wait 2 or 3 more months to resume the H2 production.
Sorry for the bad news. :(
Ugh, that sucks. I guess I'm going to have to try and buy one from eBay or Amazon.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by tmihai20 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:33 pm

I am not giving up on H2. It already showed it is a very, very good product. I guess I will wait 2-3 months. Try not to burden yourselves with too many H2, because you do not know if it will sell like it did last year and you do not want to have large stocks of H2. I hope I will find out in time and be able to get 1. I could actually buy 2 because it could be a good desktop replacement. I will definitely buy 1.
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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by jit-010101 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:25 am

odroid wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:29 pm
I'm about posting the meeting result.

Intel focuses on only Core i7 and i5 series in Q1 2019 to make more money.
They just told us there must be a chance to make some Celeron/Gemini Lake processors in Q2 April or May.
So we have to wait 2 or 3 more months to resume the H2 production.
Sorry for the bad news. :(
With that arrogance they're only further weakening their market share - just see above the opinion from the MSI CTO.

That 2-3 months will translate to at least 5-6 months in my guess.

Really, if I'd be Hardkernel I'd discontinue the H2 and move to an AMD platform for x86 ... or simply back to ARM and focus on x86 emulation from the software side.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by YamashitaRen » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:23 am

Yeah, I'm not too optimistic on H2 availability.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by tmihai20 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:54 pm

Is al least worth investigating if HardKernel could switch to AMD. I honestly do not care where my x86 board chipset is coming from. I do understand that Intel wants to make money with other products than SoCs like H2 has, but from a business point of view that is not a partner to count on. I passed on 2 H2 sold by someone in Germany. They were sold because they did not need them anymore (the project he wanted to do was cancelled) for 197 and 200 USD. I am sorry, I am not going to pay double the price. I may just go for a mini ITX, but even that format has a large footprint...
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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by jit-010101 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:24 pm

tmihai20 wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:54 pm
I am sorry, I am not going to pay double the price. I may just go for a mini ITX, but even that format has a large footprint...
Well, they would've been fine IF you could purchase them from Hardkernel for things like distributed storage e.g. 4 of them mounted on an single ATX plate ... e.g. with MooseFS ... I've been eyeing at that but as it stands right now it's just to expensive and not worth the money for me, especially looking that I wanted to purchase them "over time" I'm not to fond that it won't be instantly sold out again by a "redistributor" again that continues to sell them on eBay.com with a +33% premium all year long.

These bords get carried by their community and looking that there's such an shortage of them the community barely existant and chances are many of them likely already moved on ... certainly not a good start - especially for almost a year.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by tmihai20 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:02 am

Found another seller from Australia that just happen to buy 2, but does not need them anymore. He is asking for for 500 AUD (almost 354.02 USD - 3 times the original price) and letting it go for 800 AUD (566.85 USD - 5 times the original price). HardKernel must really, really be careful when H2 will be in stock. They should limit the purchase to 2 items based on IP and address (to prevent people creating multiple account so they can order as many as they want - or better said, as many accounts they could have). I can still complain about it, since I cannot do anything else. There will certainly be a lot of these people trying to snatch them again to sell for profit.
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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by elatllat » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:13 am

tmihai20 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:02 am
...limit the purchase to 2 items based on IP...
lol HK should let all the resellers stock up, then just not run out of stock, which would force the resellers to drop below MSRP to cut losses on the gamble.
(pre-order might be logistically good for Intel fulfillment but likely has other issues)

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by mad_ady » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:34 am

Limiting by IP is not an option. You can easily get a new ip by rebooting your modem or restarting your phone...

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by hominoid » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:53 am

jit-010101 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:25 am

With that arrogance they're only further weakening their market share - just see above the opinion from the MSI CTO.

That 2-3 months will translate to at least 5-6 months in my guess.

Really, if I'd be Hardkernel I'd discontinue the H2 and move to an AMD platform for x86 ... or simply back to ARM and focus on x86 emulation from the software side.
I agree, I'm in the camp of moving on to an AMD 2200G/2400G/200GE/220GE/240GE or their embedded counterparts. Intel has left the low end market to AMD and HK should follow suit. IMO, It most likely will not get much better moving forward...more likely to get worse. What happens in 2-3 months when it's the same story or there is only a limited supply made available?

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by rooted » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:08 am

hominoid wrote:
jit-010101 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:25 am

With that arrogance they're only further weakening their market share - just see above the opinion from the MSI CTO.

That 2-3 months will translate to at least 5-6 months in my guess.

Really, if I'd be Hardkernel I'd discontinue the H2 and move to an AMD platform for x86 ... or simply back to ARM and focus on x86 emulation from the software side.
I agree, I'm in the camp of moving on to an AMD 2200G/2400G/200GE/220GE/240GE or their embedded counterparts. Intel has left the low end market to AMD and HK should follow suit. IMO, It most likely will not get much better moving forward...more likely to get worse. What happens in 2-3 months when it's the same story or there is only a limited supply made available?
Right, and a company like Asrock will have priority over Hardkernel when the CPU are available again.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by elatllat » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:32 am

I think the assumption is that AMD would not run out of stock, or would have a better re-stocking period.
(I have no Idea if that's a realistic expectation)

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by hominoid » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:33 pm

I expect any company to run out of stock from time to time for varying reasons. What I'm more interested in is why they are running out. Is it because they have a great product and regardless of hard they try they cannot keep up with demand? Or, is it because they consider the market secondary to other areas were they are focusing their attention or maybe it just doesn't matter to them. From what I read and by their own admission, Intel seems to fall into one or both of the latter groups. They have been quoted many times saying that the high end desktop and server markets are their focus. AMD appears to be actively pursuing the low end market and producing good products for that segment. As a small producer of low power devices, I believe HK should go with a company who's strategic goals are more aligned with theirs. Again, were will HK be in 6 months regarding this supply issue? Will they be able to fulfill all their customer demands any better or reach their own sales goals for this product line?

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by stmicro » Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:59 pm

Maybe several months?
Meanwhile, Intel's low-end CPU supply shortage is expected to last until the end of 3Q19, and PC-OEMs are unable to carry out the consumption of DRAM chips under demand suppression.
Source: https://www.dramexchange.com/WeeklyRese ... /5237.html

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by tmihai20 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:02 pm

There is certainly a way to limit purchases by IP, because rebooting your modem will get you an IP from the same subnet. The thing is that it gives HardKernel a lot of work that they should not need to do.

I vote for limiting purchases in the first 2 weeks to 2 pieces, especially since supply shortage is supposed to last until the end of Q3 2019. If anybody wants to buy more, they should contact HardKernel via email so that they can decide if that someone is representing a company or is just looking to inflate prices artificially for a product that has a higher demand than its stock.

Also, going with AMD does not ensure the end of shortages. In H2 case, Intel is just not interested enough to manufacture more SoCs.
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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by Trupik » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:39 am

There is only one 100% working solition: DON'T buy overpriced H2's from reselers. Buy "standard" priced H2's from oficcial resellers ro directly from ODROID ;)

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by fvolk » Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:56 am

Hmm.... let's recap:

Asrock DeskMini A300, ~145 EUR
expected to be available in Europe in a few days (US already shipping)
includes motherboard, case, power supply, CPU cooler, has M2 + 2x 2.5" 9.5mm slots, with cables
Extra costs: need to add AM4 CPU: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=cpuamdam4&v=e& ... %7E820_AM4
standby/idle power no reliable reviews yet?

Odroid H2: 129,95 EUR (all prices from Pollin.de)
unavailable in the next months
+11,95-19,95 EUR case
+14,95 EUR power supply
+6,95 EUR fan (if needed)
+2x4,95 EUR for 2xSATA cables
total: ~175 EUR

add to both M2 SSD and SODIMM memory as needed

DeskMini: larger, only 1x network, active cooler, CPUs support AVX instructions, legacy/CSM boot support, one USB-C plug
H2: smaller, 2x network, can be used passive (but throttles under full load), no AVX support, only UEFI boot

If I missed something, corrections welcome....

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by tmihai20 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:38 am

First of all, H2 does not throttle under high load. Second, power consumption will be a lot better. I refuse to think people do not have 2 SATA cables as it home. Why not add the price of that CPU to that desktop? I will buy from HardKernel directly and the final price will definitely not be 175 EUR. We all know we could buy a mini desktop, but the truth is it motherboard alone is around 175 EUR here. Any mini desktop is extremely expensive here.

I will only buy from HK and I hope nobody will buy from those guys. Let them stack up hardware if they want.

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by fvolk » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:59 am

tmihai20 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:38 am
First of all, H2 does not throttle under high load.
It does in passive configuration... see other thread viewtopic.php?f=168&t=34056
tmihai20 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:38 am
Second, power consumption will be a lot better.
Probably, nobody did a comparison yet.
On my Intel DeskMini I get <10W at idle, that's not far from the H2.
I have no experience with AMD systems... :-/
tmihai20 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:38 am
I refuse to think people do not have 2 SATA cables as it home.
Indeed, the problem is not the data cable, but the power cable that's also needed because Hardkernel choose that strange connector and it appears hard to buy them separately viewtopic.php?f=171&t=33057
tmihai20 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:38 am
Why not add the price of that CPU to that desktop?
Because I don't know what would be a proper match in CPU power. Maybe someone else knows?
tmihai20 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:38 am
I will buy from HardKernel directly and the final price will definitely not be 175 EUR.
If it works for you good.
Other people have to buy from resellers because buying directly from Hardkernel means extra import taxes, paperwork and the fun of worldwide shipping hazards etc.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by jit-010101 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:46 pm

fvolk wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:56 am
Hmm.... let's recap:

Asrock DeskMini A300, ~145 EUR
expected to be available in Europe in a few days (US already shipping)
includes motherboard, case, power supply, CPU cooler, has M2 + 2x 2.5" 9.5mm slots, with cables
Extra costs: need to add AM4 CPU: https://geizhals.eu/?cat=cpuamdam4&v=e& ... %7E820_AM4
standby/idle power no reliable reviews yet?

Odroid H2: 129,95 EUR (all prices from Pollin.de)
unavailable in the next months
+11,95-19,95 EUR case
+14,95 EUR power supply
+6,95 EUR fan (if needed)
+2x4,95 EUR for 2xSATA cables
total: ~175 EUR

add to both M2 SSD and SODIMM memory as needed

DeskMini: larger, only 1x network, active cooler, CPUs support AVX instructions, legacy/CSM boot support, one USB-C plug
H2: smaller, 2x network, can be used passive (but throttles under full load), no AVX support, only UEFI boot

If I missed something, corrections welcome....
That the H2 can be run headless - obviously a plus for anyone without a screen. Not sure about the DeskMini tought, AMD boards are usually bitchy in that regard, especially when they're targeted for desktop use rather then as a mini-server.

The perfect CPU for the DeskMini could be something like the Athlon 200GE which brings 2x Xen2 cores and costs about 50€. The Pro Model also supports ECC-Ram but ECC-Ram an AM4 boards is an story in itself, so there's nothing set in stone - on most combinations error detection works, correction does not as far as I remember reading around the net. All in all I'd say MiniITX doesn't seem to a bad choice as well, since its a standardized format that has proper cases including up to 8x3.5 hotswap-mounts (e.g. the Silverstone SST-DS380B) ... obviously increasing cost and size of the build.

That said the connectors on the DeskMini look not to tempting ... look at the NanoPi M4 on the other hand with its 4x Sata-Hat.

I'd say feature-wise nothing comes close to the H2 for the price-tag and physical-size it has (in the x86 space), theoretically speaking since it's not available.

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by crashoverride » Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:25 am

jit-010101 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:46 pm
That said the connectors on the DeskMini look not to tempting ... look at the NanoPi M4 on the other hand with its 4x Sata-Hat.
Its important to note that NanoPi M4 SATA is attached by a PCIe2.0 X 1 interface (5 GT/s). This yields approximately 320MB/s of total transfer bandwidth. When shared across 4 ports, this provides 80MB/s of theoretical bandwidth per drive.

By contrast, x86 designs typically provide 6Gb/s (SATA3) per port. This yields approximately 420MB/s of bandwidth per drive on J4105 according to my simple tests.

TL:DR:
For a single drive, H2 is 131% (420 / 320) faster than NanoPI M4.
For dual drives, H2 is 263% (840 / 320) faster than NanoPI M4.

[edit]
The above is grammatically incorrect. A better way to state it is:
For a single drive, H2 is 1.31X the speed of NanoPI M4.
For dual drives, H2 is 2.63X the speed of NanoPI M4.

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by Dante4 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:23 pm

crashoverride wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:25 am
jit-010101 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:46 pm
That said the connectors on the DeskMini look not to tempting ... look at the NanoPi M4 on the other hand with its 4x Sata-Hat.
Its important to note that NanoPi M4 SATA is attached by a PCIe2.0 X 1 interface (5 GT/s). This yields approximately 320MB/s of total transfer bandwidth. When shared across 4 ports, this provides 80MB/s of theoretical bandwidth per drive.

By contrast, x86 designs typically provide 6Gb/s (SATA3) per port. This yields approximately 420MB/s of bandwidth per drive on J4105 according to my simple tests.

TL:DR:
For a single drive, H2 is 131% (420 / 320) faster than NanoPI M4.
For dual drives, H2 is 263% (840 / 320) faster than NanoPI M4.

[edit]
The above is grammatically incorrect. A better way to state it is:
For a single drive, H2 is 1.31X the speed of NanoPI M4.
For dual drives, H2 is 2.63X the speed of NanoPI M4.
You are wrong in two things.
That's not x1, that's x2.
And you wrong in calculations. Pci 2.0 x1 is 500 Mbytes/s, not 320 Mbytes/s (source wiki)
So x2 is 1 Gbytes/s, while SATA is 6 Gbits/s. So it's 6/8 Gbytes/s = 768 Mbytes/s.
But we have two sata, so to connect 4 drives you will need 1-->2 SATA adapter (two of them). So, that will get you 384 Mbytes/s per one drive. If we don't count loss of the speed from adapter. So, it will be
250 Mbytes/s per drive for 4 drives
Or
384 Mbytes/s per drive for 4 drives

So if you connecting one drive it will
768/1024 = 0.75
So Odroid will be faster in x0.75 for one drive (so not faster, but slower)
For 4 drives
(768/2)/(1024/4)=1.5
So Odroid will be faster in x1.5 for 4 drives

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by crashoverride » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:05 am

Dante4 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:23 pm
You are wrong in two things.
The information provided is based on physical testing of both J4102 and RK3399 (N1 PCIe2.0x1 attached SATA). The data is taken from previous forum posts on the topic. The intent is not to provide a benchmark of the interfaces but to use the same testing methodology to provide a comparison. Others are free to recreate the experiment and provide their own independent results.
Dante4 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:23 pm
And you wrong in calculations. Pci 2.0 x1 is 500 Mbytes/s, not 320 Mbytes/s (source wiki)
This is incorrect. PCIe2.0 is, as I stated in my post, 5GT/s, not 5Gb/s. The measurements provided are taken from actual hardware and account for protocol and interface overhead.
Dante4 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:23 pm
But we have two sata, so to connect 4 drives you will need 1-->2 SATA adapter (two of them).
H2 has a M2 slot (PCIe2.0x4 = 20GT/s) where an additional SATA adapter can be connected. Using the built in SATA (2 drives) and a M2 attached SATA controller (2 additional drives). The total throughput would be 1680MB/s (4 x 420).
For a quad drive system, H2 is 5.25X (1680/320) the speed of NanoPI M4.

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Re: Re: Sold Out

Unread post by Dante4 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:44 am

crashoverride wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:05 am
The information provided is based on physical testing of both J4102 and RK3399 (N1 PCIe2.0x1 attached SATA). The data is taken from previous forum posts on the topic. The intent is not to provide a benchmark of the interfaces but to use the same testing methodology to provide a comparison. Others are free to recreate the experiment and provide their own independent results.
Then, i would love to see links, where it stated, that rk3399 use PCI 2.0 x1
crashoverride wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:05 am
This is incorrect. PCIe2.0 is, as I stated in my post, 5GT/s, not 5Gb/s. The measurements provided are taken from actual hardware and account for protocol and interface overhead.
Never said anything about 5 GB/s, and PCI 2.0 x2 is 1Gbytes/s (read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express)
crashoverride wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:05 am
H2 has a M2 slot (PCIe2.0x4 = 20GT/s) where an additional SATA adapter can be connected. Using the built in SATA (2 drives) and a M2 attached SATA controller (2 additional drives). The total throughput would be 1680MB/s (4 x 420).
For a quad drive system, H2 is 5.25X (1680/320) the speed of NanoPI M4.
Pcie 2.0 x4 is 2 Gbytes/s, while SATA will limit you to 6 Gbites/s (0.75 Gbytes/s), so in this case you will get 0.75x4= 2 Gbytes/s total speed. Since you can't use more with SATA 3.
And for rk3399 it's 1 Gbytes/s total speed (since PCIe 2.0 x2 is only 1 Gbytes/s)
So if use this way, Odroid will be x2 faster than rk3399, but not x5.

Also, how did you got 420 MBytes/s from 6 GBites/s (Sata 3)? Taking in account coding system, it will be 600 MBytes/s, not 420.

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Re: Sold Out

Unread post by crashoverride » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:13 am

Dante4 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:44 am
Then, i would love to see links, where it stated, that rk3399 use PCI 2.0 x1
https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?r ... uct_id=254
Marvell 88SE9215
https://www.marvell.com/storage/system- ... -brief.pdf
Support 1x PCI Express 2.0 interface
Dante4 wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:44 am
Also, how did you got 420 MBytes/s from 6 GBites/s (Sata 3)? Taking in account coding system, it will be 600 MBytes/s, not 420.
As I previously stated, anyone is free to conduct their own tests.
1) Obtain a SATA3 SSD that is capable of saturating a link (500MB/s+).
2) Using the benchmark of your choice, test on a H2 SATA port and record the results. Test on a NanoPI M4 SATA port and record the results. The magnitude of numbers obtained are not of interest (the 420 and 320 values referenced) and will vary based on the benchmark used.
3) Express the larger result in terms of the smaller result.

Since this subject is off-topic for this forum thread, further discussion should take place elsewhere.

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