hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

What hardware or software item would You expect in a pro version?

extended DRAM (there's probably no alternative idea for more than 4GB, so we just keep in mind)
15
36%
upgradable, passive cooling
11
26%
bluetooth for serial debugging (at least rx 3.3-5V tolerance)
1
2%
board main current sensor
3
7%
native arm emulation software with N1 alike hardware specs ( like qemu2020 -m 1024M -smp 2 -machine N1 -cpu rk3399 -kernel 4.x -hda /dev/pcie_m2.img -hdb sata.img -cdrom ./N3-debugparty.iso -boot d )
2
5%
wide voltage power input (suggested was up to ~19V)
10
24%
 
Total votes: 42

ASword
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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by ASword »

Sorry, but I didn't understand any of your points, but I can guess..? HardKernel's N-1 is aimed at being a 4GB fast ARM platform that exposes as many of the capabilities as the SoC can deliver. Doing it cost competitively seems to be the main challenge, although their delay to August isn't explained so they may have other challenges. Assuming they get the N-1 to market, their investment is in terms of board design, production, and software/community support. If there are variants possible which don't require more engineering on their part, this ought to be an attractive option to potentially expand their market. Thus if the NPU-equipped SoC is a simple drop-in replacement for the non-NPU one, then this seems like an obvious win to maximize their design investment. That NPU is quite a monster (for this class of SoC), and the software support for it seems to have been done already, so it brings new capabilities that ought to expand their market reach somewhat.

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by phaseshifter »

seriously you guy`s the going price for an "XU3" was around the 170 usd or maybe aud i dunno but if i remember correctly...long time since i brought mine....either way people bought the xu3 or the -lite..weather h-k bring`s out an "N-1 -lite still remains to be seen.....

...yet there is a lot of.."whining" about the price of the "N-1"...

y is this...

my 20 cents worth...phase
Build It And They Will Come...Be Bold And Mighty Forces Will Come To Your Aid..!!!

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by rooted »

phaseshifter wrote:seriously you guy`s the going price for an "XU3" was around the 170 usd or maybe aud i dunno but if i remember correctly...long time since i brought mine....either way people bought the xu3 or the -lite..weather h-k bring`s out an "N-1 -lite still remains to be seen.....

...yet there is a lot of.."whining" about the price of the "N-1"...

y is this...

my 20 cents worth...phase
I said something similar in another thread. The thing is there are many powerful devices in this sub $100 space now, even more than when I said this very thing.

In my opinion it makes the XU4 even more attractive for many. But I know the Exynos 5422 is EOL and stock has to be running out, we need something to fill his shoes. The N1 is it.

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by crashoverride »

phaseshifter wrote:...yet there is a lot of.."whining" about the price of the "N-1"...
In my opinion, the estimated cost of N1 is cost competitive:
Firefly RK3399 (4GB) = $209.00
RockPro64 (4GB) = $93.47 (SATA + Heatsink are extra)
N1 (4GB) = $110 TBD

Firefly = vendor support (effectively none)
RockPro64 = community support
N1 = vendor + community support

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by SACHOMAN69 »

I only for the support of hardkernel and the community I choose N1
Saludos

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by phaseshifter »

my 20 cent`s again

furthermore h-k needs to make a profit as well as producing and supplying the N-1...

the said price of 110 is just covering the cost outlay for the parts..
and many would still buy the N-1 at a higher cost..
as to say that h-k doesn't need to sell themselves short
they should be making a profit... what that margin is...
only h-k can determine thus ..

...phase
Build It And They Will Come...Be Bold And Mighty Forces Will Come To Your Aid..!!!

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by gseaman »

I'll pay what is needed for them to profit, as well.

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by ASword »

I agree insofar that I will pay more for an HK part than for one of their competitors with an approximately equivalent part. The more they can drive their costs down, the better. It improves their position in the market and/or increases their profit margin.

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by back2future »

usb 2.0: 40 MB/s, Non Return to Zero Inverted _ NRZI , 4pins (VBUS, D-, D+, GND) (mini/micro -5pins)
usb 3.0 / 3.1 gen1: 300 MB/s (sbc sequential rw: N1 ~380MB/s, N2 ~340MB/s, H2 ~300MB/s), 8b10b, 9pins (type B -11pins), typeA1port ~2$/250pcs
usb 3.1 gen2: 900 MB/s, 128b132b, 24pins (4GND, 4VBUS, 2x2(D+,D-), 2x4((Tx+-,Rx+-)), 2x2(CC,SBU)), typeC ~1.6$/250pcs
usb 3.2¹ gen2x2: 1800 MB/s
usb 4.0 03/2019: SuperSpeed+ (40 Gbit/s) [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB4 ]

[ 1) http://www.usb.org/developers/presentat ... Y_Link.pdf external <40" or <1m ]
[ pcie 4.0: https://pcisig.com/sites/default/files/ ... 20Blog.pdf external <8-12" ]
Last edited by back2future on Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by back2future »

LPDDR5: Enhancements in bandwidth reliability and power for iot ai and image processing
6400Mb/s is 1.5x LPDDR4X, 64bit means 51.2GB/s and upto 30% energy savings
https://blogs.synopsys.com/vip-central/ ... rocessing/

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by back2future »

PCIe
version...............1.0/1.1......2.0 / 2.1.........3.0 / 3.1.........4.0...........5.0.................6.0.....................................
release date.......2003..........2007.............2010..............2017........2019(hw2021).2021(hw2023)......................
symbol rate........2.5 GT/s....5 GT/s..........8 GT/s...........16 GT/s...32 GT/s..........64 GT/s
line code ...........(NRZ)8b/10b..................128b/130b..........................................PAM-4 + RS(544,514)
×1 (2lanes)........250MB/s....500MB/s.......985MB/s........1.97GB/s.3.94GB/s........7.56GB/s
×16 (32lanes).....4GB/s.......8GB/s...........15.7GB/s.......31.5GB/s.63.0GB/s........120.9GB/s
°bw power/slot...75W(6pin)..300W(2×6+8).300W(2×6+8)..
3.3V¹_(×1-×16)...3.0A....................................................(3*GND_shared,4*3.3V,×1_6×SgnGND-×16_65*SgnGND)
12V¹_(×1)..........0.5A.(10W device)................................(3*GND_shared,5*12V,...)
12V¹_(×1-×16)....2.1A.(25W, ×1_25W_high.power.device).(3*GND_shared,5*12V,...)
12V¹_(×16).........5.5A.(66W, 75W_high.power.device)......(3*GND_shared,5*12V,...)
[ chipset power requirements: x470 ~6W, x570 ~11-15W (main reason PCIe 4.0 introduction?) ]

Thunderbolt
version...................................................3 (compatible USB4 Gen3 ×2, 2019).........4 (compat. USB3.2)¹²....................................................................................?
release date............................................~2014/2015..............................................~2020.........................................................
data rate................................................5Gbit/(s*lane)............................................5Gbit/(s*lane)
line code (protocol compatibilities)...........128b130b (PCIe3.x), 128b132b(8b10b) (USB3.2³), 8b10b (DP1.4a, total bwdth:dt.rate 32.4:25.92Gbit/(s*4lanes))........(DP2.0 128b130b, 80.0:77.37Gbit/(s*4lanes))
×1.(PCIe 3.0, bidirectional)......................10Gbit/s (1*input 1*output wire)
×4.(PCIe 3.0, bidirectional)......................40Gbit/s (5GB/s)
daisy chaining devices............................6
controller ic²...........................................1.2-1.7_1port,2.2W_2port (5$-8.5$/1pcs)
power supply..........................................bus.supplied_15W, USB.power.delivery_100W

"PCIe 6.0 Specification Features
Delivers 64 GT/s raw bit rate and up to 256 GB/s via x16 configuration
Utilizes PAM-4 (Pulse Amplitude Modulation with 4 levels) encoding and leverages existing 56G PAM-4 in the industry
Includes low-latency Forward Error Correction (FEC) with additional mechanisms to improve bandwidth efficiency
Maintains backwards compatibility with all previous generations of PCIe technology"

[ https://www.eetasia.com/news/article/18 ... -what-cost
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14559/pc ... nd-in-2021
pcie cabling: https://pcisig.com/specifications/pciex ... abling1.0/ Molex ipass¹¹
Infiniband: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InfiniBand#Performance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CXP_(connector)
1) https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?do ... e_number=1
2) Intel Alpine Ridge DSL6240, DSL6340, DSL6540, JHL6340, JHL6540 ( Titan Ridge JHL7340, JHL7440, JHL7540 1.9-2.4W )
3) USB 3.1, page 13, http://edadownload.software.keysight.co ... _Bench.pdf
11) signal quality through connectors, figure 4, https://www.signalintegrityjournal.com/ ... 3-channels
12) Thunderbolt 4, 03/2020 ]
Last edited by back2future on Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:20 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by elatllat »


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Re: hardware balancing: user wish list and prices

Post by back2future »

~550USD @16 cores (~35$/A72core), add, up to 64GB, so-dimm dual DDR4 memory, or seen 2x16GB DDR4 udimm with PCIe 4.0
https://eu.mouser.com/new/nxp-semicondu ... ce-design/
Workstation carrier boards add between 550$ (HoneyComb LX2K, 2 x 10GbE SFP+) to 980$ (ClearFog CX Lx2K, 4 x 10GbE SFP+ (2×2) connectors, QSFP28 40GbE).

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