ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

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ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby ErDova » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:59 pm

http://hackaday.com/2016/03/16/hands-on ... hallenger/

I agree with their conclusions: in hardware terms the C2 absolutely owns the Pi 3B, but in the software-side it's still a bit young.

I hope this review motivates the devs, because if software catches up, the C2 will truly be the ultimate package! (thou seeing how the first batch has been sold out, maybe I don't need to say it, right? ;) ).
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby crashoverride » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:07 pm

ErDova wrote:but in the software-side it's still a bit young.

The C2 absolutely demolishes the RPi in software availability because it supports Android in addition to Linux.
ErDova wrote:because if software catches up

The software has surpassed RPi. We have 64bit support in addition to 32bit. The OS we use is compiled and optimized for a modern processors (AArch64) rather than an obsolete one (armv6). We are even able to run mainline Linux directly from kernel.org on a VM now. I have even run Debian 8 and Ubuntu unmodified.

The C2 is the best product currently available in its category: low cost 64bit ARM development board. It is not a tablet, desktop replacement, media center or a server, but many do use it as such.
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby noggin » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:09 pm

crashoverride wrote:The software has surpassed RPi. We have 64bit support in addition to 32bit. The OS we use is compiled and optimized for a modern processors (AArch64) rather than an obsolete one (armv6). We are even able to run mainline Linux directly from kernel.org on a VM now. I have even run Debian 8 and Ubuntu unmodified.

The C2 is the best product currently available in its category: low cost 64bit ARM development board. It is not a tablet, desktop replacement, media center or a server, but many do use it as such.


Could you point me in the right direction for the VM stuff that runs Kernel 4.0 or higher? I have a number of USB devices that only work with newer kernels, and don't work with the elderly kernel in the current mainline ODroid releases, and because of the state of the kernel headers are difficult to compile on these, but should be built in to newer kernels. (Mainly DVB-T2 sticks etc.)
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby XeoSal » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:12 pm

I think the author just didn't want to disgrace something like RPI at all while they are known for charity, they won't admit facts until the very end, when it's very obvious.
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby noggin » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:13 pm

ErDova wrote:http://hackaday.com/2016/03/16/hands-on-with-the-odroid-c2-the-raspberry-pi-3-challenger/

I agree with their conclusions: in hardware terms the C2 absolutely owns the Pi 3B, but in the software-side it's still a bit young.


The Pi series have a few hardware advantages still. 3D MVC decode AND 24p Full HD Frame Packed output is supported on the Pi series - but whilst MVC decode has been implemented on some AMLogic devices, I've yet to se Frame Packed 1080p 3D output.

Also - does the ODroid support PCM 5.1 or 7.1 audio output currently (the hardware does I believe - but is it exposed through drivers?) as the Pi series support.

If you are looking at a media player platform the ODroid has some real advantages (hardware HEVC decode, UHD output, HDMI 2.0) - but the Pi also has some in the 3D and high quality audio output stakes. (So far my ODroids have been limited to PCM 2.0/DD/DTS only - i.e. DVD quality audio not Blu-ray)

I've got both a Pi 3 and a C2 (also a pile of other Pis and ODroids...) and whilst the C2 is amazingly impressive, the Pi 3 'just works'...
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby crashoverride » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:26 pm

noggin wrote:Could you point me in the right direction for the VM stuff that runs Kernel 4.0 or higher?

http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=19153

noggin wrote:(Mainly DVB-T2 sticks etc.)

Passing through USB tuners is the exact issue I am currently engaged with others developers on.
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby noggin » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:36 pm

crashoverride wrote:
noggin wrote:Could you point me in the right direction for the VM stuff that runs Kernel 4.0 or higher?

http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=19153

noggin wrote:(Mainly DVB-T2 sticks etc.)

Passing through USB tuners is the exact issue I am currently engaged with others developers on.


If I can be of any help let me know. The August T210v1 (aka Geniatech/Mygica T220) is a real pain. It works with DVB-T only in older kernels, but a later patch was added by crazycat (I think) to add DVB-T2 support after the Windows driver behaviour was analysed.
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby olihey » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:51 pm

noggin wrote:3D MVC decode AND 24p Full HD Frame Packed output is supported on the Pi series - but whilst MVC decode has been implemented on some AMLogic devices, I've yet to se Frame Packed 1080p 3D output.


Can you elaborate on this one? What's the difference between MVC decoding and 24p Full Frame packed?

Reason I am asking: I have some 3D MVC MKV ripped from 3D Blurays. Those play fine with Kodi on my OSMC Rpi2 which I am planning to replace with the C2.
So, the C2 can't play those?
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby crashoverride » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:50 am

olihey wrote:So, the C2 can't play those?

The answer to the question is "yes, the C2 can play h264 mvc".
https://github.com/hardkernel/linux/blob/odroidc2-3.14.y/drivers/amlogic/amports/vh264mvc.c

However, the question actually being asked is "Can Kodi play those?".
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby noggin » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:32 am

olihey wrote:
noggin wrote:3D MVC decode AND 24p Full HD Frame Packed output is supported on the Pi series - but whilst MVC decode has been implemented on some AMLogic devices, I've yet to se Frame Packed 1080p 3D output.


Can you elaborate on this one? What's the difference between MVC decoding and 24p Full Frame packed?

3D MVC is the video codec used to encode 3D video on Blu-rays. It's like MPEG2 or H264 (in fact it is MVC+H264 on 3D Blu-rays - the MVC signal allows a second eye to be created from the first eye in the H264 2D-compatible stream)

Frame Packed 3D 1080p is the standard used to carry Full resolution 24p HD 3D video over HDMI (it's an output format not a codec) (Technically it's 1920x2205/24p with 45 lines of blanking between the two 1920x1080/24p eye feeds)

To get 3D Blu-rays to play in full quality on 'standard' equipment at full resolution you need both 3D MVC decode (to play the video) and Frame Packed 1080p 3D output (to output the video at full resolution).

Some AMLogic devices have 3D MVC decode - but they are then halving the resolution to output as HSBS (i.e. 1920x1080 HSBS which will be 960x1080 for each eye feed).

Reason I am asking: I have some 3D MVC MKV ripped from 3D Blurays. Those play fine with Kodi on my OSMC Rpi2 which I am planning to replace with the C2.
So, the C2 can't play those?


AIUI not within Kodi and/or not at full 1080p resolution.

I've yet to see any fully confirmed reports of AMLogic platforms outputting Full HD 3D Framepacked 1080p.
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby olihey » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:54 am

Thanks for the very good explanation.
That's unfortunate about the missing Full Frame 3D support on AMLogic devices. Seems I need to keep the Rpi2 around just for 3D.
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby wrxtasy » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:00 am

wrxtasy checks if the Android HK devs have enabled 3D MVC decoding in the Android S905 Kernel....
https://github.com/hardkernel/linux/blo ... nfig#L1198

Checked. :)

Now what you need for 3D MVC Half Resolution playback on AMLogic is a Android Kodi fork called SPMC that has experimental 3D MVC code in it, from the Android dev Koying:
http://spmc.semperpax.com/

I believe users TV's need to be manually switched to 3D. Its not all Automatic yet like the RPi's.

I also have a S812-H 3D MVC experimental OpenELEC version for the WeTek Core floating around somewhere.
Last edited by wrxtasy on Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
LibreELEC Krypton C1(+) HERE
LibreELEC Krypton C2 HERE
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby noggin » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:59 am

wrxtasy wrote:I believe users TV's need to be manually switched to 3D. Its not all Automatic yet like the RPi's.


Neither is it Full HD Frame Packed is it? Isn't it just HSBS?
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby wrxtasy » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:44 am

Now what you need for 3D MVC Half Resolution playback on AMLogic
LibreELEC Krypton C1(+) HERE
LibreELEC Krypton C2 HERE
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby olihey » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:35 pm

@all: Sorry for hijacking the thread

@wrxtasy: Just to get this right. You are saying the S905 HARDWARE is not capable of outputting Full Frame MVC? Or is there currently no software support available.
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Re: ODROID C2 Review from Hackaday

Unread postby noggin » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:23 pm

olihey wrote:@all: Sorry for hijacking the thread

@wrxtasy: Just to get this right. You are saying the S905 HARDWARE is not capable of outputting Full Frame MVC? Or is there currently no software support available.


What we are saying is that the hardware is capable of decoding 3D MVC (which is usually 1920x1080) but that we don't as yet have a route to output this in Frame Packed 3D 1080p (the consumer standard format for Full HD 3D which is used by 3D Blu-ray players and most 3D TVs), so instead it is output at half-resolution. (Where effectively a 2D 1920x1080 signal is split in half and thus only half resolution eye feeds output to the TV)

I don't know if it has ever been confirmed if this is a driver limitation or a hardware limitation. However given the relatively small impact 3D has had in the consumer video marketplace I doubt much work is being expended on it.

This is where the Pi has a bit of an edge. Because some of the Kodi developers are also in the Pi development team, if they decide to do something, they can do stuff at a much lower level without needing to be reliant on third parties. This is how a lot of the additional Pi functionality like 3D MVC, Frame Packed output, improvements in deinterlacing and GPGPU acceleration for HEVC software decode were added. The Pi team also seem to work quite hard to do things 'properly' not just 'well enough'. They implemented PCM 5.1/7.1 audio output very early on in the life of the original Pi (it may have been there since launch), and were very quick to integrated DTS HD MA decoding to PCM for HD Audio output once an open source decoder was brought to their attention (which is now in mainline and benefits lots of other users who have PCM multichannel but not HD Audio bitstreaming capable platforms - like some Windows Bay Trail and Cherry Trail devices in Windows).

The C2 undoubtedly has much more powerful hardware, but the Pi definitely has developers who are closer to the 'bare metal' of the Pi chips and are free-er to do more development at a lower level as a result. It's a real pity we don't have similar levels of integrated development with AMLogic, but they are a very different company in a very different commercial environment.
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