XBMC with CEC possible

sebog · Post by **sebog** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:59 am

Hi There,

just read about your new Odroid-C1. Sounds great! Does it have CEC-support?

Will it be possibly to use Panasonic TV Remote with CEC on XBMC like it is possible with raspberry?

If not, which of your mainboards does support CEC?

Also: Is it possible to install the raspberry version of XBMC on the C1? If not, will there be a tuturial how to install or even another image?

Thanks a lot

Post by **mdrjr** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:05 am

Yes, Hardware supports CEC but its still not tested and we are working onto getting it

As for software... Its not compatible with rPi. Very different Hardware.

sebog · Post by **sebog** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:20 am

Wow ...that was fast - thx

Is that what you say: You are working still on the software and will provide image files to download with xmbc and working cec soon

Then I will order now and stay excited

Post by **mdrjr** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:23 am

Current image (Ubuntu 14.04) Has XBMC working.. except for CEC
CEC will be supported too

sebog · Post by **sebog** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:49 pm

Is there a timlime for CEC-support @XMBC already?
I'm thinking about waiting untill the release of the next ubuntu image version before installing. Would that make sense?

Post by **mdrjr** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:51 pm

Working on it as speak

damp · Post by **damp** » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:22 pm

I would also love the cec support

@mdrjr: you say the hardware supports it, does that mean that it should be possible in android as well?

Post by **mdrjr** » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:26 am

Not sure about Android...

bobbug2 · Post by **bobbug2** » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:42 pm

Is there anything you have to do/install to get CEC support?

How do you find out if it's the cable or the OS/whatever support what causes a problem if CEC is not working?

StrekoZ · Post by **StrekoZ** » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:14 am

As mdrjr said, he is working on CEC support, and probably we will see it soon at next release. Just be patient. Answering on same questions takes a huge time for him.

Holzhaus · Post by **Holzhaus** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:15 am

Any news?

Post by **odroid** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:28 pm

Unfortunately, the CEC will not be enabled in near future due to the limitation of current hardware.
Sorry about that.

Holzhaus · Post by **Holzhaus** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:38 pm

But CEC-support will come eventually? Because CEC-Support was one of the reasons why I bought the C1...

Offshore · Post by **Offshore** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:27 pm

Same here

kinguru2 · Post by **kinguru2** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:32 pm

And me

Mefa2 · Post by **Mefa2** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:54 pm

I had been wating for CEC support with my fingers crossed, but now I have to think if I buy it. For me it's very important feature, because I wanted to build my media center around C1.

corossig · Post by **corossig** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:53 pm

@odroid : could you be more explit about the limitation of current hardware

olihey · Post by **olihey** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:54 pm

odroid wrote:Unfortunately, the CEC will not be enabled in near future due to the limitation of current hardware.

Can you please explain this?

Is the Odroid C1's hardware capable of supporting CEC?
So, can this be added via software later?

Post by **odroid** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:42 pm

The threshold voltage level of CEC input pin is too low and it can't read the CEC signal stably.
The threshold level is not adjustable by software and we can't fix this issue probably.
Really sorry about this issue.

Mefa2 · Post by **Mefa2** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:11 pm

@odroid
1. Will it be fixed in future units?
2. Is it possible to map some keys on TV's remotes to work with C1's IR reciver?

skgo · Post by **skgo** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:48 pm

IIRC, CEC is between 2.5 and 3.6V, the Pin on C1 seems to be in a 3V3-Bank - any chance to get this fixed with the pullup in the IOB (or external pullup)?

Post by **odroid** » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:51 pm

@Mefa2
1. I have no idea at this moment.
2. If your IR remote is NEC protocol compatible, it must be possible.

@skgo
The CEC input port IO-voltage is 1.8Volt bank.

Holzhaus · Post by **Holzhaus** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:37 am

I'm kinda angry now, because I specifically looked if the C1 supports CEC and found this thread. Your anouncement was the reason why I bought that device.

Any chance that we'll be allowed to RMA our devices to get that fixed? Or that we get a Pulse8 USB Adapter for free or at reduced price? Or can you describe some way how to increase voltage (maybe via GPIO pins)?

skgo · Post by **skgo** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:56 am

@odroid thanks for the info. Seems I was looking at a wrong place. We are talking about GPIOAO_12 (J16), right? I assumed VDDIOAO_3V3 (J15) is the corresponding bank-VCCIO

karlkloss · Post by **karlkloss** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:09 am

Well, that problem should be fixable with a HDMI adapter plug, that contains a voltage divider on the CEC signal.
Did you try this?

wibrain · Post by **wibrain** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:07 pm

odroid wrote: Sorry about that.

I am hoping that this is NOT the official final response to this issue. Count me among those that are extremely disappointed at the lack of this very important functionality. It needs to be fixed in future revisions of the hardware, and some compensation should be in order for the early adopters.

bodgy · Post by **bodgy** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:06 pm

karlkloss wrote:Well, that problem should be fixable with a HDMI adapter plug, that contains a voltage divider on the CEC signal.

I might have misread, but if the CEC pin voltage is too low then it would be a buffer or pullup that would be needed rather than a voltage divider. Will wander off and look at the schematic again, just in case I'm an idiot!

skgo · Post by **skgo** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:47 pm

No, he wrote the threshold voltage for logic '1' is too low. My understanding:
CEC is low between 0-0.6V and high between 2.5-3.6V
The C1 pin has 1V8 IO, so the 0.6V CEC Low is not in all cases caputerd as logical '0', but may due to the low pin threshold be captured as logical '1'.

bodgy · Post by **bodgy** » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:23 pm

Ah, yes, well ignore what I said then

karlkloss · Post by **karlkloss** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:47 pm

To Hardkernel:

Please provide an image with CEC enabled and Kodi, or (even better) a CEC test program.
Then I'll try to find a solution with resistors, or in case that fails, a level translator.

Phyx · Post by **Phyx** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:22 pm

wibrain wrote:
odroid wrote: Sorry about that.

I am hoping that this is NOT the official final response to this issue. Count me among those that are extremely disappointed at the lack of this very important functionality. It needs to be fixed in future revisions of the hardware, and some compensation should be in order for the early adopters.

I'm pissed about this too. How did you not test this before you claimed it supported CEC??? Sorry just doesn't cut it here. What happens to us early adopters now?

pascasio · Post by **pascasio** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:05 am

Only sorry?

No to what extent this is reportable for fraud. Announce that a device has such a feature to buy it and then say "sorry".

marcoooo · Post by **marcoooo** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:43 am

question what the hell is CEC and why is it needed with xbmc

running multiple devices with KODI and never missed it

pascasio · Post by **pascasio** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:51 am

It is used to manage kodi with the same control of the tv without any configuration. It is very useful to avoid having to use but we Yatse or Internet

marcoooo · Post by **marcoooo** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:57 am

thats why i never missed it 9and never will use) i use yatse ...

thnx for the explanation

tf2k · Post by **tf2k** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:27 am

@odroid:
Can you please give some more details regarding the HDMI CEC issue? I had a look into datasheets of the HDMI level shifter from NXP and the amlogic SoC, but when I studied the schematic of the C1 I couldn't spot the hardware problem. Is it the missing external pull up (compared to level shifter reference) or what is the issue? All CEC related signals seem to be connected to the 3V3 rail. Hope you give some hints so electronic students like me may get it working using a hardware workaround.

It would be very nice if you can share your investigations to the community. C1 ist still my favorite to buy for a Kodi - but there I would like to use the CEC.

Phyx · Post by **Phyx** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:34 am

I agree that the Odroid-C1 is a really good hardware platform, that's what makes me so angry about this whole thing. I won't really start throwing words around like fraud, but would be very grateful to @odroid if you can tell us a way forward from here.

I suppose I have to get a pulse-eight adapter now, which I rather not since it's more expensive then the board itself!

I'm not an electronics guy so I don't fully understand the issue, so would be grateful if someone could explain to me why there isn't a software workaround possible for this issue. isn't it still possible to distinguish between low (0) and high (1) ?

bklopfer · Post by **bklopfer** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:49 am

Very disappointed here, too. But I'm willing to bust out the ol' soldering iron if it would fix this -- please let us know.

@Phyx, it sounds like the low-level hardware does not properly distinguish between low and high, as the voltages are not commensurate with the HDMI-CEC spec. If that's the case, there's likely nothing that can be done in software to rectify it (the software doesn't get to set the low/high voltage thresholds). There's no software fix for getting a 240V-only appliance to run on 120V...

Phyx · Post by **Phyx** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:47 am

Ah that clarifies things, thanks @bklopfer.

I guess since I don't have the required soldering nor electronics skills I will wait a bit longer for people who do have the required skills to confirm that this is indeed a hardware issue and will just have to order a Pulse-Eight adapter...

memeka · Post by **memeka** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:58 am

I think this should be possible to fix with a HDMI adapter.

dedenker · Post by **dedenker** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:18 pm

Okay, this is F* up, but lets move on.
It is a development board and we are nerds

so let stop crying about and get this little piggy for the market!

Would it not be possible to build a pull up resistor on PIN 13 that would fix the problem?
I understand that somewhere there might be also a resistor that is to high...?
So the options are:
* Use the Pulse-Eight CEC adapter (just require Android ( http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5022 ) to be recompiled with libcec, Ubuntu is already supported)
* Try a pull up resistor, remap PIN13 to a GPIO pin or some other tinkering... (high risk of brinking you Odroid!!)
* Use the IR sensor to recognize your own/default remote control signals (no support on Android, Ubuntu needs a "learning" application also)
Anybody else idea's?

karlkloss · Post by **karlkloss** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:48 pm

Pull down, not pull up.
All devices on the CEC bus have a pullup resistor to 3.3V, and can pull the signal down to 0V, to generate messages. It's like a LIN bus or K-Line.
So we need a pulldown resistor to bring the high signal down (not very reliable, because it depends on the TV and maybe other devices) or better a voltage divider. If that doesn't work reliably, then we need a level translator from 3.3V to 1.8V. Also doable.

Hardkernel, can you confirm that this is the right pin for CEC?

Post by **odroid** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:02 pm

Please hold on.
We are looking for a better solution now even we don't know whether it really works or not.
Give us a couple of days.

dedenker · Post by **dedenker** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:09 pm

If hardkernel follows HDMI standards the pins are 13 and 17=(gnd).

streetboy · Post by **streetboy** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:14 pm

dedenker wrote:If hardkernel follows HDMI standards the pins are 13 and 17=(gnd).

http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=3323
Micro type D seems to have a different pin map.

dedenker · Post by **dedenker** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:51 pm

Correcy, my bad.
PIN 15 & 16(GND) it is then.
http://pinoutsguide.com/PortableDevices ... nout.shtml

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:23 am

What is CEC?

ryecoaaron · Post by **ryecoaaron** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:43 am

Using Google...

Definition of:HDMI CEC

(HDMI Consumer Electronics Control) A control function that lets one A/V component control another if they are connected via HDMI cables. For example, inserting a disc into the DVD player would turn on the TV automatically or the A/V receiver, if part of the system. Using proprietary brand names, HDMI CEC initially worked only when components were from the same vendor. Increasingly, HDMI CEC works across vendors' products. See HDMI.

OverSun · Post by **OverSun** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:10 am

People tend to give CEC very strange definitions - that it allow you to switch between sources, choose active source, control DVD's, blah-blah-blah...
In XBMC way it's very simple - it is a way to push commands back through HDMI cable to device that is showing you XBMC. That means you take your remote, turn on TV, make it louder/quieter with the remote, and see the XBMC running on the TV. Then you press left/right/up/down keys on the same remote and it controls XBMC. The same goes for play/pause and other buttons. Very convenient to have XBMC control integrated to your TV remote.

Karaczan · Post by **Karaczan** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:01 am

My TV is an LG with SimpLink. As i know it's CEC compatible.
Please make a packet for download, so we can experiment on our own.