ODROID W+

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by Curmudgeon » Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:03 am

DanielBull wrote: the Foundation were working to a tight cost budget
Yes. I'm no fanboy of the Foundation but I have been hugely impressed by the way they have always set very aggressive price targets and then managed to make it happen, seemingly without much compromise of their functionality goals. I'm also impressed by Odroid's ability to produce cost-effective and timely products and I'll be very interested to see their response to RPi Zero.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by fkpwolf » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:00 am

They focus on bcm soc, this saved lots of money and time.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by mikemoy » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:53 am

Curmudgeon wrote:MikeMoy: I'm glad RPi Zero has no eMMC. Odroid's cheapest eMMC module costs $25. How would that go on a $5 computer? As for microSD being "old school": microSD is still a very good solution when you need affordable, removable, bootable, scalable storage.
You have to keep in mind that that is the IC, PCB and connector. If you put the IC directly on the main board it will cost allot less than this.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by Curmudgeon » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:33 pm

mikemoy wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:MikeMoy: I'm glad RPi Zero has no eMMC. Odroid's cheapest eMMC module costs $25. How would that go on a $5 computer? As for microSD being "old school": microSD is still a very good solution when you need affordable, removable, bootable, scalable storage.
You have to keep in mind that that is the IC, PCB and connector. If you put the IC directly on the main board it will cost allot less than this.
Yes, if the IC is mounted on the main board, it will cost less but no longer be removable and not be of a size that is chosen by the user.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by mikemoy » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:42 pm

Why would one need it removable ? If someone needs more storage which 4/8 GB is more than any user app could ever be they could always add extra storage via USB.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by Curmudgeon » Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:20 pm

mikemoy wrote:Why would one need it removable ? If someone needs more storage which 4/8 GB is more than any user app could ever be they could always add extra storage via USB.
Raspberry Pi users are accustomed to having a choice of OS which is easily done if the boot device is removable. It is also extremely unlikely that a device will ever be "bricked" if it boots from a removable device.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by Curmudgeon » Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:27 pm

DanielBull wrote:They don't need to use the Broadcom chip though. Maybe a mini C1?
You don't need to buy BCM2835 SoCs from Broadcom if you can buy Raspberry Pi Zeros for $5. ODROID W+ could take the form of a mother board with surface mounted essentials (USB hub, WiFi module, DC/DC booster, RTC, ADC etc) and provision for the user to add optional items (RJ45 Ethernet, Li-ion Polymer battery, UART console connector, USB connectors, etc). A Raspberry Pi Zero is then plugged into this mother board to complete the device. Instead of plugging in a Raspberry Pi Zero, Odroid might choose to develop a similar minimal module based on AMlogic S905 that could be substituted for more demanding applications.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by DanielBull » Fri Nov 27, 2015 6:29 pm

Mike I agree with you about the onboard flash. Especially in a compute module style device there's no need for it to be removable.

Curmudgeon there's already of ton of boards coming out for the Pi Zero from the regular Pi suppliers with some of those features, I know the Pimoroni LiPo battery interface one is imminent for example. With reference to getting a USB Hub and RJ45 ethernet surely thats just buying a Pi2 instead :)

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by mikemoy » Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:59 am

Curmudgeon wrote:
mikemoy wrote:Why would one need it removable ? If someone needs more storage which 4/8 GB is more than any user app could ever be they could always add extra storage via USB.
Raspberry Pi users are accustomed to having a choice of OS which is easily done if the boot device is removable. It is also extremely unlikely that a device will ever be "bricked" if it boots from a removable device.
One can just as easily upload the different OS images to flash. Granted it takes a few minutes longer that say swapping a sd card. After trying some of the different OS's they should know which one they want to use and not have to do it anymore.
As far as bricking it goes.... After the board is manufactured, how do you think they get it on there in the first place.

You like uSD, there is nothing wrong with that. I dont like it and think its just a waste of money to add the socket connector and extra price of the uSD card. Not to mention you cannot coat a board to keep it water proof or water resistant when it uses a uSD card.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by RRicardo » Sat Nov 28, 2015 2:47 am

Dear,

About the ODROID C0, and the onboard Wireless Interfaces options?

Also, do you consider the use of it in wearable appliances? Some onboard sensors, like acelerometer is a plus.

best regards

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by Tpimp » Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:19 pm

For everyone talking about removable vs on-board. The storage should remain removable/emmc + SDcard for the Odroid-C0 and get placed on-board for the Odroid-CM1.

If you don't need/prefer having the removable then you probably:

Don't own more than one Odroid of the same model - often I am developing on one image while another is "running" then after testing I swap the sdcard into the running device and everything is ready to go.
or
Don't use different images (or do any image work) Odroid offers Android + Ubuntu when I was trying images I would just download a bunch load up a few SDcards with different images then tried them all out. Having to reflash for each new system - :(

And yes the device can get bricked if the bootloader/flashing code becomes corrupted. When an emmc gets corrupted you can pull it off and use a recovery tool or RMA to Hardkernel. Then pop in another memory (or the fixed one) and get back to work. There are many users that become "confused" because they don't read the directions or understand how to flash. But for everyone else the removable storage is great! Also 64GB micro-sd is dirt cheap off amazon. Odroid will not include such a module. If you always cross compile this might not be so important. But if you actually work on the device the storage is very nice.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by stmicro » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:49 pm

I wish there is a wifi IC with a chip antenna on the board. :) But the price must be lower than $30. Is it feasible? I don't expect $5. ;)

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by patchvonbraun » Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:44 pm

My own use of Odroids involves entirely "headless" operation for doing DSP work for radio astronomy using SDRs. With RTLSDRs, I can stream 2 x 2.56Msps with a C1, and do useful radiometry and spectral calculations, and then send frequent summary data (at 100Hz or so) to a regular PC host for data storage.

For more-demanding applications, involving higher sample rates, I have used the XU3, and will use the XU4 when I next need something like that.

Obviously, in my application, ethernet is important. Then it would become a question of whether C1 or C0+external USB ethernet is more power/heat cost-effective.

I also really like the "standard" 40mm heatsink layout that C1 used, an shares with U3 and XU3. I'm tending to go with all-passive cooling (since these things end up
in feed boxes at the focus of sometimes-large radio telescopes, I don't want fan breakdown). What I do is replace the standard heatsink with a block of 1.5" x 1.5"
aluminum that can then be bolted to an enclosure with its own stupidly-overkill heatsink. Once you do that, thermal management is pretty easy, and not something
you need to worry about.

If the C0/W1+/whatever had most of the ethernet brought out to a small-footprint connector, and then there'd be an accessory board with magnetics, etc, that might
make this attractive for my work, particularly if it were smaller than the C1.

But for higher-bandwidth apps, I'd still use the XU4 (with the passive-cooling trick I describe). Heck, some kind of aluminum block that allows you to bolt the thing to
your own enclosure (an passive cooling of whatever kind) might be useful for the entire product line.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by DW90 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:58 am

I am really excited for the C0! However, there are two things missing that I find important. The first is the composite video pins that where on the W. I like using the composite pins so that I could use a small screen 2.2" without having a pcb around the display. The second is the camera connector from the W. In my projects I like to be able to see in the dark, so I use the raspberry pi no-ir camera. This camera is the best for the money solution that I have found, not to mention that the foot print on the camera is small too. If these could be added, this would make the C0 perfect for just about anything.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by odroid » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:20 pm

Here are some pictures of the C0 engineering samples.
We need about a week to test all the functionality.

Click the pictures for full size view.
Li-Polymer Battery manangement circuit works and it boots well.
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The green LED is added to display the charging status.
s_C0_3.jpg
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The eMMC and SD-card interfaces are also fine.
s_C0_2.jpg
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I hope we can start to ship the Zero from middle of Feb 2016.
The retail price is around $25 hopefully.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by DanielBull » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:06 pm

Excellent!

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by Tpimp » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:18 pm

Awesome can't wait! I like the pcb shape!

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by DanielBull » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:56 pm

I just did a post, please let me know if anything is wrong:
https://plus.google.com/+DanielBull/posts/6tBdAJXrBYc

Can you confirm how much RAM it has?
Will it be 1GB the same as the C1+?

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by odroid » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:00 pm

Yes, it has 1GB RAM.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by DanielBull » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:12 pm

Thanks, I've updated.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by mikronauts » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:50 am

Odroid, I love this board!

I just saw the photos at cnx, and it looks great but I see two problems:

1) uSD socket should face the other way, as otherwise it badly interferes with the GPIO header

2) eMMC module is a bit too close to the gpio header, would interfere with mounting a female header on the bottom of the board

PLEASE flip the uSD socket the next board run, and move the emmc module enough so female headers can be mounted on the bottom of the board!

I REALLY love the 2x4 0.1" header under the USB header for mounting a header instead of a 2xUSB host connector.

Having two direct USB channels to the SOC exposed like this is fantastic!

Edit:

I saw the gig-e post... if there is no room for 2x8 .1" header, how about 2x8 0.05" header?
odroid wrote:Thank you for the positive feedback.

@memeka
Yes, you can remove the heatsink to reduce the weight and height if your application is sensitive to the profile/weight.
But it is really hard to reduce the PCB size. :(
Many application needs the 2 USB host probably(two is much better than one :) ), so we removed the otg port.
It gave us a room to place the slide switch for power contorl too.

@stmicro
Yes, your guess is right. They have the identical formfactor of PCB.
Target MSRP is around $30 or slightly lower.
The first engineering samples will be ready around middle of December.
If its functionality and stability is acceptable, we will prepare materials.
The lead time is about 8~10 weeks normally.
If everything goes well, we can start to sell it in the middle of Feb 2016.
But we can delay the schedule if other customers give us any good ideas.

@Respectech
I really hope this C0 will be suitable for your Robot project. The dancing/speaking robots at the ARM Techcon was really impressive.
This will be helpful to make a robot kit with marketable price range.
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Re: ODROID W+

Post by cdu13a » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:20 pm

Really like the looks of the new board.

It would be rather unfortunate if the eMMC or uSd interfered with being able to attach a female GPIO header to the bottom of the board.

I don't know how it would impact the rest of the routing but if possible rotating the connector 90 degrees so that the uSD can be inserted from the side of the board that the usb header is on might be best. Since I can see just flipping the connector to face the opposite way having the downside of somebody potentially scrapping those very small {resistors,capacitors} that are currently behind the uSd connector right off the board while inserting the uSD card.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by odroid » Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:17 pm

@mikronauts & cdu13a
Placing the 40pin header or socket on the bottom seems not to be a good idea because it is not easy to replace the SD or eMMC memory if there is a base board.
Anyway, we will try to find a room to place those two connectors in better place or better orientation. But it seems to be very hard. :(

For the USB interface, I could put 0.1" 4pin header socket if I slightly bend the pins. So it seems to be fine.


@DW90
There is no CSI port on the SoC unfortunately.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by mikronauts » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:06 am

odroid,

I think the uSD socket facing the other direction should be easy (I know, famous last words)

If I have to, I could leave the eMMC off in order to have a female 40 pin connector on the bottom, or if there is space, move it 0.5-1mm further from the GPIO

I use stacking 40 pin connectors a lot, and for some uses, I would strongly prefer to have the female connector on the bottom. I am less worried about replacing the uSD than interfering with the gpio connector.

How about rotating the uSD socket 90' anti-clockwise then? Looks like it would fit.

I think you meant four pins for an Ethernet PHY connector....
odroid wrote:@mikronauts & cdu13a
Placing the 40pin header or socket on the bottom seems not to be a good idea because it is not easy to replace the SD or eMMC memory if there is a base board.
Anyway, we will try to find a room to place those two connectors in better place or better orientation. But it seems to be very hard. :(

For the USB interface, I could put 0.1" 4pin header socket if I slightly bend the pins. So it seems to be fine.


@DW90
There is no CSI port on the SoC unfortunately.
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Re: ODROID W+

Post by mikemoy » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:08 pm

This is more what I am hoping to see one day from Odroid, as I prefer to only buy their products. The only downside to this board is that it does not have some form of header to mount it to another board so it could be removed and reused.
I am not also to fond of how big it is. But it is a start in the right direction.
http://cubieboard.org/2015/05/28/previe ... er-module/
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Re: ODROID W+

Post by Tpimp » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:16 pm

Hopes that an Odroid-CM1 will be similar - but also better :)

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by Fourdee » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:26 am

Respectech wrote:I believe the AMLogic S805 already throttles down the CPU automatically when it gets hot, so it can run at full speed until the temperature climbs.
Relying on the ARM to reach 95'c and kicking into a failsafe mode to prevent damage, is not the way it should be done. The XU4 has this issue, 3 seconds is all you get of "advertised clockspeed" before it drops down to 1.4ghz. I prefer a kettle to boil my water, not an Odroid.

My wishlist for c0:
- Micro USB powered (so I can purchase a common and reliable PSU)
HK XU4 PSU = Faulty on arrival, replaced with 5v/8a, working 24/7 for 4 months
HK Odroid C1 PSU = Dead after 1 month. Took an official RPI psu (5v/2a) and modded it for the c1, working 24/7 for 3 months.

- Micro USB female (OTG)
If soldering is required to attach a USB port to allow USB usage, you will limit your target audience beyond belief.
http://DietPi.com - Lightweight justice for your Odroid.
DietPi web hosting is powered by http://MyVirtualServer.com

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by DanielBull » Sat Jan 09, 2016 6:10 am

I would say the target audience for this particular product would be the maker community which can solder on a USB port themselves. To that community its more useful to have it not on there.

For the people that can't solder a USB port there are lots of other suitable boards.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by Respectech » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:08 am

@Fourdee: You must have incredibly bad luck with power supplies. I've never had a problem with an HK power supply even though I have about a dozen units, and I've been running some systems for years on the same HK power supply 24/7. Out of the thousands of HK power supplies sold at ameriDroid.com, we may have received back 1 out of 1000 (at most) due to quality issues.

Also, just for clarification, the Samsung SoC clocks down to 900MHz when it throttles the A14 cores. Check out our heat-related performance testing videos on the XU4 at https://youtu.be/q7_ZCHpAngo for more details. With the active cooler under full load, we got an average of 1.32GHz on the A14 cores, and 1.56GHz with a heavy aluminum passive cooling case.

Regarding the C0, ameriDroid.com will be offering custom soldering services to mount whichever headers/ports required for a particular project on the C0 for low cost - for those people who don't have soldering equipment or skills. I don't think this will be a very high-demand service, though as I agree with Daniel Bull. Most people who use the C0 will want to mod it themselves.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by odroid » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:58 pm

Quad-core based quad-copter developement kit seems to be feasible.
I want to call it an affordable Flying ODROID kit. :twisted:
We will try to add IMU, battery, WiFi, GPS and camera to implement the auto pilot in the future.


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Next month video will not have the ugly 4 wires hopefuly. ;)

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by mknrls » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:52 pm

would it be possible to transform one of usb to otg via kernel hack?

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by odroid » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:30 am

mknrls wrote:would it be possible to transform one of usb to otg via kernel hack?
If the OTG ID pin is exposed on the PCB, the hardware hack is much easier.

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Re: ODROID W+

Post by mknrls » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:38 am

odroid wrote:
mknrls wrote:would it be possible to transform one of usb to otg via kernel hack?
If the OTG ID pin is exposed on the PCB, the hardware hack is much easier.
ah ohk cool. have the perfect project for this board :D cant wait haha

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