ODROID-C3

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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:32 am

meveric wrote:I'd say there's still plenty of stuff to do

I think there is plenty of stuff to do too. I just don't think any of it, except for bluetooth driver, has anything to do with HardKernel. N64, PS1 and other emulators are the responsibility of their maintainers. Issues with FireFox/Chromium/Ubuntu are the responsibility of their respective maintainers. HardKernel is not the only armv8 product manufacturer and they can not realistically be expected to port all armv7 to armv8. In the open source world, everyone plays their part. These issues are also not unique HardKernel. Any armv8 64bit distro will have the same issues.

I have been working a lot with the VPU lately. I do not consider anything a "hack" with it (yet). The "pregs" setting is a X11 "hack" rather than a VPU hack (it disables the alpha layer to make the display controller work like a legacy PC that X11 expects). The things the C2 does were not even dreamed of when X11 was designed (1984 according to wikipedia) so its understandable that all things X11 sucks balls on it. However, I also think its not HardKernel's job to design, implement, and maintain a modern graphics framework to replace X11.

So that is the longer version of why I say "Ok, C2 is fixed. New board please!". The things left to be done are 3rd party chores.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby meveric » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:04 am

I guess from a hardware perspective you're right. Most hardware components work "somehow", and if that's the only thing you're interested in, then I guess yes for you a new board means a new challenge.
For me providing over a hundred software packages for ODROIDs, new hardware (that does not realy bring any benefit to me or to my work) is not as important as it might be for you, it normally just just means more and more work for me.
I'm already dealing with about 600 GB on software for all boards. So new hardware only for the purpose to have new hardware is rather unimportant for me.
but I can understand that you have different goals :)
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby memeka » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:51 am

crashoverride wrote:
meveric wrote:I'd say there's still plenty of stuff to do

I think there is plenty of stuff to do too. I just don't think any of it, except for bluetooth driver, has anything to do with HardKernel. N64, PS1 and other emulators are the responsibility of their maintainers. Issues with FireFox/Chromium/Ubuntu are the responsibility of their respective maintainers. HardKernel is not the only armv8 product manufacturer and they can not realistically be expected to port all armv7 to armv8. In the open source world, everyone plays their part. These issues are also not unique HardKernel. Any armv8 64bit distro will have the same issues.

I have been working a lot with the VPU lately. I do not consider anything a "hack" with it (yet). The "pregs" setting is a X11 "hack" rather than a VPU hack (it disables the alpha layer to make the display controller work like a legacy PC that X11 expects). The things the C2 does were not even dreamed of when X11 was designed (1984 according to wikipedia) so its understandable that all things X11 sucks balls on it. However, I also think its not HardKernel's job to design, implement, and maintain a modern graphics framework to replace X11.

So that is the longer version of why I say "Ok, C2 is fixed. New board please!". The things left to be done are 3rd party chores.


i would like a mali driver compiled with wayland support :P what would be HK that has the DDX .... :)
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby hugolp » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:20 pm

There is also the issue that video hardware acceleration software needs a wrapper to be useful in Ubuntu. There are several drivers issues still for the C2.

meveric wrote:If you check @odroid's post you see that they only compare Android up to now, and already said, single core performance is identical to the S905. Means most of the applications will perform EXACTLY the same as on the C2, since there are only a FEW programs that can use ALL cores. (there some that are probably benefitting from it, software decoder for video mostly).


I agree with this. Adding more cores to an already 4 core chipset, will not improve anything for most people.
Last edited by hugolp on Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:29 pm

More cores are useful to anyone who compile code so that argument doesn't really apply to a dev board, most people who use these as anything other than a Kodi box compile.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby hugolp » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:04 pm

rooted wrote:More cores are useful to anyone who compile code so that argument doesn't really apply to a dev board, most people who use these as anything other than a Kodi box compile.


The definition of a dev board is not a board where you compile stuff, it is a board you use to test new developments. As stated before, more cores will only help the use cases of a minority. One has to outweight the small benefits vs the costs of releasing and mantaining a new board. That is the point, it is not that more cores are completely useless, they are not, it is whether it is worth it or not, and it clearly seems it is not.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby nobe » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:47 pm

crashoverride wrote:I should also note that site lists it as "Mali-T830 MP2", the GPU is actually a T830-MP3 according to multiple sources.

nice finding
that would mean the gpu would be 66 Gflops instead of 44, which means +100% increase
that's also what odroid stated

@odroid
iirc, one missing feature in the c2 is the lack of software support for the vpu encoding hardware
it would be nice if you could push amlogic devs to work on this feature
i'm pretty sure people working on computer vision would love that
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby memeka » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:01 pm

Actually S912 is Mali T820MP3 :)
But I agree having ffmpeg decoder and encoder (plex transcoding) would be a huge boon.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby meveric » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:17 pm

rooted wrote:More cores are useful to anyone who compile code so that argument doesn't really apply to a dev board, most people who use these as anything other than a Kodi box compile.

That only works if you have enough RAM to support this. I often am slown down in compiling, since some parts need 400 or 600 MB RAM to compile one part.
so 600*4 makes it 2400 MB RAM and the ODROID only has about 1900 RAM available. means you already swap.. even using ZRAM is not always a solution, and I also had programs that used much more RAM than that (up to 1.3 GB per thread). So having 8 threads @ 600MB RAM means you need nearly 5GB RAM. SO if you have a board with more cores, but not the RAM to support these cores, it's pretty useless to have these cores (not always, but quite often).
Also remember more cores mean more heat, remember the XU3/XU4 where 3 A15 cores at 100% already mean 95°C and throttleing.. which means that 5 cores aren't even used yet.
Even "just" cortex-a53 cores can produce quite some heat, especially if 8 run at the same time.

memeka wrote:Actually S912 is Mali T820MP3 :)
But I agree having ffmpeg decoder and encoder (plex transcoding) would be a huge boon.

If it's really only the T820 then the performance gain would be nearly nothing at all:
Mali-T820 --- 600 MHz 10.2Gflops
Mali-T830 --- 600 MHz 20.4Gflops

means it's more likely that the resulting Mali-T820MP3 would have around 30~35 Gflops if it is a T820 instead of T830.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:06 am

How about we compromise and HardKernel makes a S912 board only for me?
:D

It appears that S912 products are already stating to hit the streets and should be generally available in September:
http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/08/13/mxq-plus-m12n-amlogic-s912-tv-box-review-part-1-specs-unboxing-and-teardown/

I do not think its going to CPU/GPU that is the deciding factor on this. Rather, I believe its going to be price.
[Update: The device is sold as Acemax M12N for $69.99 on GearBest, and $82.99 on Aliexpress]
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby bleedingedge » Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:37 am

Better be
64bit arm proc
at least 4/6gb ram
type c connector to power the device (felt this is the most convenient way)
at least stable ubuntu 16.04 /android 6.0 image support

This way, it can combined with the recent kickstarter funded project https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andromium/the-superbook-turn-your-smartphone-into-a-laptop-f to be used as laptop
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:35 am

bleedingedge wrote:Better be
64bit arm proc
at least 4/6gb ram
type c connector to power the device (felt this is the most convenient way)
at least stable ubuntu 16.04 /android 6.0 image support

This way, it can combined with the recent kickstarter funded project https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andromium/the-superbook-turn-your-smartphone-into-a-laptop-f to be used as laptop

I think powering by USB is asking for trouble, it's why the devices have a barrel connector.

Most devices with USB-C use batteries, they aren't powered by USB.

Convenience always comes at a price, instability for too many with underpowered/underequipped USB cords and wall adapters.

*edit*
I'm all for type C, just not for power.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby nobe » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:04 am

crashoverride wrote:How about we compromise and HardKernel makes a S912 board only for me?
:D

It appears that S912 products are already stating to hit the streets and should be generally available in September:
http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/08/13/mxq-plus-m12n-amlogic-s912-tv-box-review-part-1-specs-unboxing-and-teardown/

I do not think its going to CPU/GPU that is the deciding factor on this. Rather, I believe its going to be price.
[Update: The device is sold as Acemax M12N for $69.99 on GearBest, and $82.99 on Aliexpress]

i've read this article this morning, they use the worst cooling system i've ever seen so far
thermal pad between soc and platic case... even a small heatsink inside this "no air vent case" would have been better imho
i think they just wanted to release the 1st s912 available in the market

btw, cnx article mentions that you can buy the box for 52$ in the manufacturer aliexpress store
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby elatllat » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:25 pm

meveric wrote:...none of the ODROIDs currently available can fully use the potential of the GPU due to bad drivers...

+1
I think better software support would lure the masses, and be most benificial to HK.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby Skazochnik » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:26 pm

Can we ask for USB3 and microhdmi ?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby hugolp » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:03 pm

elatllat wrote:+1
I think better software support would lure the masses, and be most benificial to HK.


+1 This is the complain you hear more in the forums when you mention hardkernel devices. People in the internet tend to exagerate the real issues there are, but they do have a point that it could be improved.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:34 am

Skazochnik wrote:Can we ask for USB3 and microhdmi ?

Ugh, microhdmi is a terrible connector.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby elatllat » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:36 am

memeka wrote:...Vulkan-ready...

If the S912 brings a usable Wayland via Vulkan I'll buy a few.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby Skazochnik » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:49 am

rooted wrote:
Skazochnik wrote:Can we ask for USB3 and microhdmi ?

Ugh, microhdmi is a terrible connector.

How about mini hdmi or mini displayport ?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby memeka » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:42 am

elatllat wrote:
memeka wrote:...Vulkan-ready...

If the S912 brings a usable Wayland via Vulkan I'll buy a few.


No it won't, since AMLOGIC does not use DRM, and wayland requires DRM.

Currently, wayland works on the XU4 - weston works very well, enlightenment has some vsync (i think) issues and framerate is ~20 instead of ~60, and i have yet to try gnome 3.20.
The drivers are from arm, and have some issues tho` (visual glitches with using alpha); i hope with updated drivers the glitches will be fixed.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:45 pm

memeka wrote:No it won't, since AMLOGIC does not use DRM, and wayland requires DRM.

I am actually interested to know how they integrate the Mali T-820 with a non-DRM fbdev driver. I guess they are still hanging on to UMP to achieve it.

On a related note, there is an effort to bring something called "simpledrm" driver to mainline:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=SimpleDRM-Revived-2016
For those that don't recall this driver when it was proposed a few years ago, it's about providing a simple, generic KMS driver and exposes one CRTC+encoder+connector plus one initial mode while complying with the DRM/KMS interfaces. It's sort of like a fallback driver for the KMS world.


That sounds like exactly what is needed until a real DRM driver is provided.

[Its sad that linux calls it DRM. It means Direct Rendering Manager in this context, not Digital Rights Management. The conversation gets confusion when we start talking about DRM (rights management) support for DRM (rendering manager).]
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby memeka » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:36 pm

yes, UMP.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby Skazochnik » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:05 pm

Pre order ?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby tchiwam » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:26 pm

The S912 should go on a C2+ Keep the C3 for something better ?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby mlinuxguy » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:40 pm

s912 does not support USB3
The pre-release materials had it listed, that was incorrect. http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/04/06/ ... fications/

The s912 should be the upgrade path for the C series and it should be called C+ or CPro
Reserve the C3 for some future 14nm Amlogic chip

On the topic of "everything is fixed but for GPU" on the C2
A new issue is that we don't really have 1.7Ghz and 2.0Ghz speeds, unknown if that can be fixed: viewtopic.php?f=141&t=23044#p155618
Overclocking ability was never added since they hide their volt-freq tables and PWM clock driver in DRM'd binary blobs (see above or my post on "exploring C2 clockspeeds")
Jumbo frames do not work properly on the C2 since the stmmac driver is so far out of sync with upstream
I could come up with more but most others are ARM64-bit software related (Atlas, HPC, etc..)

My list of interesting features for a next C3 board includes
Amlogic ARM64 on 14nm geometry
4gb RAM
USB3.0
1G networking
Upstream kernel support at some point (starting to doubt Amlogic will pull this off with the S905). I don't want to keep backporting bug fixes from upstream

Just curious: anyone know if a CSI connector is possible for future C-series boards?

Edit: Added idea for future non-C series board
Do any upstream supported Aarch64 armv8 boards have carrier module versions? Perhaps a non-C series board could be a CPU module baseboard for some upstream
supported CPU module.
Last edited by mlinuxguy on Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby odroid » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:07 pm

Thank you forks. Very useful inputs so far.


BTW, is there any upstream patch to enable the Jumbo frames for C2? Sorry for out of the topic.
mlinuxguy wrote: Jumbo frames do not work properly on the C2 since the stmmac driver is so far out of sync with upstream
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby mlinuxguy » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:34 pm

Its unclear if the fix is a few patches or the entire series needs to be applied
I've had several PM's asking me to look back into it. At one point I even tried re-basing the upstream stmmac into our kernel. I got it to build
but not connect, then added in all the Amlogic pieces I thought it needed and issues building/working rapidly got out of hand.
A few of the upstream patches mention fixing jumbo frame allocations and sizes.. But nothing says at this point you have working Jumbo Frames :mrgreen:
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby williamaadams » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:39 pm

If I had one wish for the next series of devices, it would be to forget about trying to be a Raspberry Pi drop-in replacement, and come up with better layouts for connectors.

I really like the way the various FriendlyArm devices lay things out. All the big connectors are on one edge for the most part. That would make it much easier to make sane cases and clusters.

As for the actual CPU, meh, whatever. These machines are all fairly low powered, and already capable of doing the media streaming thing. There's a jump from there to being compute capable, and we're not going to get there any time soon, so it's to focus on other attributes.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby mysterd » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:45 pm

As a newcomer to the Odroid boards (I only have had a C2 for 2 months now...), my only need is what other people here already mentioned... Proper graphics drivers and corresponding Ubuntu (or other distro) packages.
(Please remember here the "mali-x11" package conflict problems...)

As the C2 (to my knowledge) isn't the most widespread board (compared to raspi 3 for example), main software communities don't directly target it and thus are not really quick to address issues concerning the corresponding arm64 platform.

For example, I struggle to get the Kivy framework working properly on C2 as it relies on the GLESv2 libs and hasn't the proper build parameters. I know it is a 3rd party software problem, but it's mainly due (as far as I can tell) to the fact that the C2's environment is far from "standard". There are several threads in this very forum concerning Kivy or even Qt5 and installation problems.

Once again, I haven't much experience with Odroid / arm64 boards so please feel free to correct me (and to give me pointers to potential solutions).

Have a nice day
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fvolk » Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:09 am

After playing with the C2 for some weeks now:

* I have given up on desktop for 2016. This will fix itself with time as more aarch64 based platforms become available and support and testing of various distributions and packages increases.
* For headless server use the C2 is neither very good nor very bad. It does it's job fine in running 24/7, mostly sleeps, and performs repetitive and service tasks with a very small power draw, no longer need a x86 PC for that. The RPi's are too weak so far, the stronger ones (XU..) have a fan. The C2 is strong enough and fanless.

Future improvements:
* For a headless server there is no HDMI cable, only the power on the side, but this single power connector+cable requires a lot of space. Can we move this to the USB/Net etc. side so everything is on one side?
* Keep the C3 fanless, but make the heatsink larger or more efficient. Full loads last much longer than on a phone.
* Upstream kernel support. Now it's a game of luck, either some device works or not (or buggy), and backporting upstream drivers/fixes is a painful time sink. For the C2 maybe we will get full upstream support one day...
* Faster storage. As long as everything fits into the 2GB RAM it's ok, but if an application runs out of RAM it screeches to a halt as there is no fast I/O to do swap with. eMMC is too expensive for storage. Can we have a USB 3 bridge chip?

I will not buy more C2 because of kernel and fast mass storage reason.... :-/
IMHO
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby nobe » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:12 pm

fvolk wrote:Future improvements:
* For a headless server there is no HDMI cable, only the power on the side, but this single power connector+cable requires a lot of space. Can we move this to the USB/Net etc. side so everything is on one side?

interesting idea, while reading this i had those thoughts :

another possibility would be to get the PoE feature (power over ethernet, see wikipedia article)
but i don't know if it would require a lot of additional pcb space or if it would cost too much money for a low cost dev board

as for the connectors layout, i wonder if it's possible to have in same the side :
- 1 ethernet port (possibly with poe support)
- several vertical usb ports (2x usb2 and 1x usb3 for example)
- 1 vertical hdmi port

imho, that could be useful for people using this board in headless server mode or as a tv box

what do you guys think about that ?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby hugolp » Sat Aug 20, 2016 3:27 pm

fvolk wrote:the stronger ones (XU..) have a fan. The C2 is strong enough and fanless.


You can run the XU4 fanless too, there are several threads with explanations and pics.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:05 pm

nobe wrote:
fvolk wrote:Future improvements:
* For a headless server there is no HDMI cable, only the power on the side, but this single power connector+cable requires a lot of space. Can we move this to the USB/Net etc. side so everything is on one side?

interesting idea, while reading this i had those thoughts :

another possibility would be to get the PoE feature (power over ethernet, see wikipedia article)
but i don't know if it would require a lot of additional pcb space or if it would cost too much money for a low cost dev board

as for the connectors layout, i wonder if it's possible to have in same the side :
- 1 ethernet port (possibly with poe support)
- several vertical usb ports (2x usb2 and 1x usb3 for example)
- 1 vertical hdmi port

imho, that could be useful for people using this board in headless server mode or as a tv box

what do you guys think about that ?

I'm 100% for a vertically oriented HDMI but this would get in the way of hats, makes it a no go.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby nobe » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:12 pm

rooted wrote:I'm 100% for a vertically oriented HDMI but this would get in the way of hats, makes it a no go.

either there is something i don't understand correctly, or you misunderstood my idea :
both current "double usb2" horizontal connectors would be replaced by 3 vertical connectors (1 hdmi, 1 double usb2, 1 single usb3)

if i'm not wrong, that shouldn't hinder hats in any way (the width of the horizontal hdmi connector is 15mm, the exact same as the height of the current double usb2 connectors)

though when i look at my C2, i wonder if there would be enough space in the pcb to solder all those connectors...
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby fvolk » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:23 pm

hugolp wrote:You can run the XU4 fanless too, there are several threads with explanations and pics.


If a future XU5 can be bought fanless (without self-modding a larger heatsink onto it and self-cutting hole in case) I'll surely buy at least one for evaluation.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby hugolp » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:55 pm

fvolk wrote:If a future XU5 can be bought fanless (without self-modding a larger heatsink onto it and self-cutting hole in case) I'll surely buy at least one for evaluation.


There are already made solutions to run the XU4 fanless. For example: http://www.us.diigiit.com/odroid-xu4-fa ... -enclosure .
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby Skazochnik » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:45 am

Hello.

When c3 will be avaliable ? Specifications ?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby Cartridge » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:16 am

My idea of "Next Big Thing" would be :
Not necessarily Faster because I think 32 Bit octacore does the trick and sometimes, even 4 cores has been great for all these years.
"The most Compatible CPU/GPU" since they are soldered together, I've yet to find out which cpu that is.
More ram! Not faster once again just more ram.
Yes a reset button and just a "User Configurable Button" if people want to have a Power On/OFF, they can map it. These 2 buttons are enough.
An Audio Out 3.5mm is a must for me. I don't like the idea of Duplex Audio that includes Audio in and out. I've never gotten around to having a microphone that has no noise. So for that, a Audio in should be preferrable.

About CPU/GPU, for some reason, I'm thinking "Nvidia". Why? I've always been on the NVidia Graphics Cards wagon for years and If I build a old computer rig for games, NVidia is my go to. Nothing else about NVidia. Just Graphics cards.
Something that can support both GL and GLES... That would solve many problems and in other terms, make the programs that makes use of "GLSHIM" they will run much faster because of native support.

Now that's a breakthrough. But dreams are dreams.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby Cartridge » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:09 am

I'm not done researching on this topic but I'm having this thought about CPU and GPU being side by side instead of all-in-one.
If that ever exists for ARM. Because as we all know, GPU is the biggest thing that needs more compatibility. Using GLshim to solve our problems for GL programs is more of a workaround than a complete fix. I wonder what would happen if one would take a, sorry if I mention this one more time, A Nvidia Chip and solder it besides the CPU. Something like a NV MX440 chip.
MX440 is not the latest but would still be a great jump in another direction. (notice I did not say "in the right direction" since ODROID has always been in the right direction as far as I know)

This topic actually got me hooked to find out the most compatible parts we can make use of. I may be wrong, I may be right,
But there's just no way that there's not a compatible solution. It's not about Design, Not about how arm can't do GL but how we
can accomplish this even if it's not a all-in-one solution cpu/gpu and even if it's a hack. It's how you administer the graphics to the computer. We should check for all the types of graphics administration to the computer. USB type, Mini PCI-e type, other methods i'm not aware about.
First we should see if any chosen method works and then to see how we can implement it on the board...or external. However the method shall be. I've yet to find more methods but I'm just not ready letting this topic to a "I Give UP!" type of thing.
The more I think about it, the more methods I can think of, something even like GPIO if that's possible.

(I've been searching and searching for months on end for the most open source GPU regardless of the architecture and I just can't find anything better than NVidia. Sorry.)

So no. Whatever anyone says, There has to be a compatible solution even if it's a ugly solution to start with, to then research some more into it. And I will still be checking on those GPU's for many more months. I'm 100% sure there is hack to make a non-arm ready gpu to work with ODROID. I may be repeating myself but it's just impossible to think that it's impossible to do.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby elatllat » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:18 am

Cartridge wrote:...Nvidia...NVidia...NVidia...


You need to get this
http://www.connecttech.com/sub/products/ASG001.asp
and live happily ever after.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:24 am

elatllat wrote:
Cartridge wrote:...Nvidia...NVidia...NVidia...


You need to get this
http://www.connecttech.com/sub/products/ASG001.asp
and live happily ever after.

I think the $193 TK1 would suffice, no need to pay $600 for the TX1.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00L7AWOEC

Or get a Shield TV for the same price.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby Cartridge » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:30 am

I don't like their boards. Only their graphics. I don't like the shield aswell. I had opted for a pre-order long ago but I cancelled my order after seeing some people who had it early and I thought of it as an "Android Knock-OFF/Spin-OFF" to get our attention and game streaming... I'm sorry to say, It's the stupidest thing I've heard in a long time. At least for me. Why would I get a super hyped up computer to play hyped up games on another console that it's being streamed on....That's just a cry for them to grab more money out of our pockets for stupid inventions. That's only my opinion, don't take this for granted.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby elatllat » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:11 am

Cartridge wrote:I don't like their boards...

What don't you like about the TX1 and TK1?
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby tchiwam » Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:53 pm

<evil mode>
2.0GHz quad or octacore Armv8 ;)
</evil mode>
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby elec » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:56 pm

I agree that the S912 isn't very interesting, please wait for a smaller process node for the C3. And a non-RPi connector layout would be a nice.

I'd really like to see some suspend/resume functionality implemented. I think the C2 can get down to maybe 1/1.5W with disabled modules and underclocking, where some ARM-based smartphones can sleep at below 0.05W. If the C-series was made battery friendly it would open up a lot of opportunities and put it over its competitors.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rooted » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:05 am

elec wrote:I agree that the S912 isn't very interesting, please wait for a smaller process node for the C3. And a non-RPi connector layout would be a nice.

I'd really like to see some suspend/resume functionality implemented. I think the C2 can get down to maybe 1/1.5W with disabled modules and underclocking, where some ARM-based smartphones can sleep at below 0.05W. If the C-series was made battery friendly it would open up a lot of opportunities and put it over its competitors.

Actually with the latest libreelec you can put the c2 in low power mode.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby rredline » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:58 pm

I hope Odroid C3 will have Wi-Fi in-built (using ESP32 or ESP8266 or RTL8710 chip), with an u.fl connector for external antenna. It is unthinkable a modern SBC without Wi-Fi in-built.

The Odroid C2 is interesting, but the lack of in-built Wi-Fi is a big turn-off to me.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby crashoverride » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:48 pm

rredline wrote:It is unthinkable a modern SBC without Wi-Fi in-built.

There has been discussion on this in other parts of the forum. The short version is that WiFi needs are too diverse to force everyone to pay for the feature. Some even specifically require that no radios are present in the environment where the Odroid will operate. Finally, adding WiFi to the board requires additional expense in regulatory certification and compliance.

HardKernel offers a variety of USB WiFi adapters in their store. The fact there is not a single offering further illustrates the diversity of user's needs. Since adding USB WiFi is both trivial (plug in a USB device) and inexpensive ($5.50), the optimal solution for everyone is to offer WiFi as an option rather than a "tax" for those that will not use it. On device that include built in WiFi, most users will disable it in preference of a more capable (5Ghz) USB offering anyway.

-- Stop reading here if you are RPi3 fan --

An example of problems with on board WiFI is the RPi3. It includes a SDIO based WiFi adapter that is marketed as 150N. The reality is that it will operate no faster than half that (75N). It also has a very short usable range as reported on their forums. Due to this, its unusable for many users and is replaced with a competent USB solution. In this scenario, it has only added unnecessary expense to the board.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby Jojo » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:35 pm

I think about some kind of an "option-system". Of course, the initial development is a little bit more complex. But in the end, ther could be a very versatile and flexible product, which covers many specific user needs.
Lets say the basic board comes with CPU and 1GB RAM for xx $/€.
onboard WiFi option: +5$
2GB RAM: +5$
3GB RAM: +15$
4GB onboard NAND/eMMC: +15$
(...)

This would be similar to what other products, like the PINE64 offer (some boards even have options for the CPU itself!). And looking at the very different preferences and needs of the users here, such a system could be a logical consequence.
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Re: ODROID-C3

Unread postby hugolp » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:03 pm

rooted wrote:Actually with the latest libreelec you can put the c2 in low power mode.


What power consumption you get in idle then?
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