Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby bleedingedge » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:27 am

Just saw Xiaomi released Mi5 pro is using MSM8996 lpddr4 with ufs 2.0

I am expecting our XU5 not to fall too far behind, at least 4gb ram and 64bit support, emmc 5.1/ ufs 2.0 :lol:
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby lizardmech » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:47 pm

rochchip rk3399 seems to be released today, dual a72, quad a53, 2x USB 10gbps USB - C and pci-e. Claims to have linux and chromeOS support and is on 28nm so it's probably cheap.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby hugolp » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:35 am

lizardmech wrote:rochchip rk3399 seems to be released today, dual a72, quad a53, 2x USB 10gbps USB - C and pci-e. Claims to have linux and chromeOS support and is on 28nm so it's probably cheap.


Rockchip has always been bad at linux drivers.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:18 pm

Not that we should call drivers on others untill Mali produces some for the c2.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby Fred From France » Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:42 pm

yes rk3399 seems to be a killer SoC if price and drivers are good:
Image.

I hope that Hardkernel will respond to this challenge, or die :-(
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby dronus » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:25 pm

I would strongly opt for the Nvidia Tegra TX1 SoC.

Despite my Odroids I'm using a Ubuntu-converted Nvidia Android Shield TV which costs 200€ including a fat complex gamepad, WiFi and Bluetooth onboard. So boards should go below 200€.

The performance is stunning. Office software feels PC-like, Browsing Small-PC-Like, OpenGL Desktop PC-like. The GPU is extremely strong, in fact, the box vastly outperforms my i5 notebook on WebGL.

It drives 4K displays on HDMI, features not only OpenGL ES but also full OpenGL, lists a plethora of extensions for OpenGL and WebGL.

Xorg, OpenGL and WebGL are running fast and stable with almost no differences to their desktop PC pendants. randr is flawlessly supported.

H264 hardware en- and decoding is working using the gstreamer framework. It can record a 1080p screencast of heavy WebGL rendering with almost no effect on frame rate.

So I am super exited with this SoC and would be happy to see an Odroid board with it to get around bricking-prone consumer device conversions.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:49 pm

dronus wrote: So boards should go below 200€.

Actually, its probably the opposite. I doubt anyone could provide the device cheaper than Nvidia themselves. They likely subsidize the cost with the expectation of making it up elsewhere.

The two other products using the chip are both priced at $500.00 and up:
1) Nvidia's own TX1 development board that runs Linux: $600
2) Google Pixel C: $500
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby rooted » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:28 pm

Yep, the cost is definitely being absorbed somewhere.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby indium » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:29 pm

such an expensive thing would not even be considered I think. It's totally out of the miniPC/sbc public which always expects some cheap thingy. that monstrous (in price) TX1 looks as a joke here.
I think rk3399 would be an interesting option, seems like rockchip did it better than amlogic with this progress, the question is whether it's easy to add yet another vendor to the list for hardkernel. if this is not that hard, rk3399 might be a real option for the next odroid in the soon.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby rooted » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:41 am

To be fair the XU3 was about $179.00 originally and it sold okay.

I would go for an TX1 dev board $199.00, but not a shield.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby dronus » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:37 am

rooted wrote:I would go for an TX1 dev board $199.00


Absolutely, me too.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:41 pm

I think its very unrealistic to expect a $200 TX1 board. The SoC alone probably costs that much.
http://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/tiny-nvidia-supercomputer-to-bring-artificial-intelligence-to-new-generation-of-autonomous-robots-and-drones
The NVIDIA Jetson TX1 Developer Kit can be preordered starting Nov. 12 for $599 in the United States, with availability in other regions in the next few weeks. The Jetson TX1 module will be available in early 2016 at a suggested price of $299 (in quantities of 1,000 or more) from distributors around the world.

Note that the module alone costs $300. The motherboard adds an additional $300 for the total price of $600.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby rooted » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:52 pm

I wasn't expecting it for $200, I was just saying I would be willing to pay that amount.

I highly doubt Nvidia is losing $200+ for every ShieldTV they sell, I can believe $100 but not more since I don't see the value for them. What is the business model, Nvidia is a hardware company?
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:13 pm

rooted wrote:What is the business model, Nvidia is a hardware company?

I can only speculate ...
1) It doesn't actually cost NVida anything other than materials for the chip itself. They make the chip, they don't have to buy it. They may sell it for $300, but the cost-to-produce is far below that for them.
2) They likely get paid to bundle video streaming/rental services. The also likely get a percentage of each rental/purchase made through their device.
3) They may also run their own app store or have deals in place with other app stores.

This would explain why Shield is a $200 product, but the module by itself costs $300. Again, this entirely speculation.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:47 pm

I still want odroid to focus on software, but look DDR5 on an SBC;
http://hackerboards.com/skylake-pico-it ... io-boards/
I wonder what pricing it like.
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USB3 for Storage?

Unread postby mattbot » Sun May 01, 2016 10:19 am

rupy wrote:Silent cooler is the only feature that is important.
...
USB3 is good enough for everything IO.

More RAM if 64-bit.
I agree with everything except USB3. Depending on the application, USB3 can be a very poor choice. It doesn't support NCQ (Native Command Queuing), which is necessary for getting good random read/write performance.

If people want to use this as a light-weight NAS platform, USB3 is definitely not ideal. I'm interested in it for media streaming, so it's fine with me. It won't replace my main fileserver, no matter what.

Update:

It seems I was partially correct. Natively, USB3 doesn't support NCQ. However, there is UASP, which is this article nicely explains. In the middle of the 3rd page, there's a nice graph, comparing the read & write performance for different sizes @ QD=4 (though I assume this is effectively QD=1, for USB BOT mode). On page 4, there's a graph comparing fixed transfer sizes with different queue depths:

http://www.myce.com/review/beyond-usb3-with-uasp-67035/

Obviously, UASP provides a real benefit, but it still can't touch SATA 3, for any kind of random access I/O. It's not just NCQ, but also lower transaction overhead that put SATA 3 ahead.

BTW, MYCE was formerly called cdfreaks. Back in the day, it was the very best site for all things involving optical media. It seems like they've still got some solid content.
Last edited by mattbot on Mon May 02, 2016 2:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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NVidia Tegra TX-1

Unread postby mattbot » Sun May 01, 2016 12:20 pm

I don't get this fixation on the TX-1. It's too hot (10-15 W), expensive, and is only quad-A57 (plus quad-A53, in some variants). And the only benefit you can't get elsewhere is a better GPU, which most people don't need.

I think it misses the market, for the XU series. Can we please stop talking about it?
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mi7chy » Mon May 02, 2016 2:52 am

Odroid XU4 is faster overall with better cost performance ratio than Nvidia TX1 according to this.

http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1601164-HA-1601134GA15

Hoping for XU5 with A72 cores. Since it's a higher performance solution and plugged in I don't care much about the little cores. Would be nice to at least see a refreshed XU4+ soon with 20nm Exynos 5430.
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Re: NVidia Tegra TX-1

Unread postby dronus » Tue May 03, 2016 9:14 am

mattbot wrote:I don't get this fixation on the TX-1. It's too hot (10-15 W), expensive, and is only quad-A57 (plus quad-A53, in some variants). And the only benefit you can't get elsewhere is a better GPU, which most people don't need.


And that's why Ubuntu Desktop feels sluggish on ARM if compared with Android: Developers thinking that people don't need software using the GPU.

But software that could benefit of a GPU usually benefit to extreme extends.

Despite games however, the industry was very slow to use the potential of GPUs, but I think those times are over now. More and more productivity software is now using the GPU too, even more on Android. Word processors maybe never will, but image processing, video editing, video transcoding, computer vision like face detection etc. are more and more using GPU based computation.

For CPU-bound workloads the Tegra can't compete middle class x86 processors. But for GPU workloads, it smokes away most of Intels embedded GPUs and is on-par with middle class dedicated GPUs albeit consuming much less power.

I am currently developing a video effects and media platform, and tried out many devices to run it. The Tegra platform was the second-fastest of all, just behind an tower PC with dedicated graphics card requireing a 450W PSU.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby rooted » Tue May 03, 2016 12:14 pm

mattbot wrote:I don't get this fixation on the TX-1. It's too hot (10-15 W), expensive, and is only quad-A57 (plus quad-A53, in some variants). And the only benefit you can't get elsewhere is a better GPU, which most people don't need.

I think it misses the market, for the XU series. Can we please stop talking about it?


What do you mean too hot? Do you know how much wattage the XU4 uses under full load...

A GPU with full X acceleration, who would want or need that :/
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Tue May 03, 2016 7:53 pm

rooted wrote:...A GPU with full X acceleration, who would want or need that :/


I know that would totally break my workflow;
Whenever I need fan noise or to bring all running threads to a crawl I just resize some windows.
https://xkcd.com/1172/
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mi7chy » Wed May 04, 2016 4:35 am

rooted wrote:
mattbot wrote:What do you mean too hot? Do you know how much wattage the XU4 uses under full load...


Have never seen a TX1 used in a phone but that's probably because it needs a giant heat sink whereas the Exynos 5422 has been used in the Galaxy S5.

Image
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby jonathanclift » Mon May 09, 2016 2:47 pm

I would like the XU5 to support multi-displays.
More importantly, I would like to see native support for Displayport, and the 2048 X 1536 resolution (the resolution used by retina monitors and made by LG display).
Having the eDP connector used by the ipad mini retina, and/or ipad retina would be a dream come true, that way, I could just order up a cheap hi-res monitor, and snap the connector right on to my XU5. I would also accept a cable that connects to the monitor as well that uses displayport.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby armfanboy » Wed May 11, 2016 2:11 pm

I don't like x86 -64bit but a few vendors from kickstarter or indiegogo have shipped intel z8300 / z8700 based mini computer

eg.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/magi ... -8gb-ram#/
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/80 ... i2-form-fa

I really hope the upcoming XU5 will equip with more ram 4gb / 8 gb with ARM 64-bit proc ....
4k video support and usb 3.1 type would be awesome if possible
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Re: NVidia Tegra TX-1

Unread postby mattbot » Thu May 12, 2016 10:27 am

dronus wrote:
mattbot wrote:the only benefit you can't get elsewhere is a better GPU, which most people don't need.
And that's why Ubuntu Desktop feels sluggish on ARM if compared with Android: Developers thinking that people don't need software using the GPU.
You don't need a TX-1 class GPU to have a decent desktop experience. Working drivers will do wonders. It doesn't take much hardware to scale images and draw windows. If it's still slow, fix the software - don't just throw more hardware at it.

elatllat wrote:Whenever I need fan noise or to bring all running threads to a crawl I just resize some windows.
https://xkcd.com/1172/
Damn, that spacebar heating is a pretty good idea. I think that's the next gem, for sure!
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mattbot » Thu May 12, 2016 10:30 am

armfanboy wrote:I don't like x86 -64bit but a few vendors from kickstarter or indiegogo have shipped intel z8300 / z8700 based mini computer
This trend is going to last until Intel stops production of that part. Then... party's over.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10288/intel-broxton-sofia-smartphone-socs-cancelled
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Re: NVidia Tegra TX-1

Unread postby alpha_one_x86 » Thu May 12, 2016 9:34 pm

mattbot wrote:You don't need a TX-1 class GPU to have a decent desktop experience. It doesn't take much hardware to scale images and draw windows. If it's still slow, fix the software - don't just throw more hardware at it.

+1 more link to support you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bloat
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby vbextreme » Fri May 13, 2016 12:51 am

The x86 is another planet.
especially for full software support.
my Lubuntu now became gentubuntu, because the missing packages, those do not work, it remains alone Configure && Make .....
Easy framework framework for c language
EasyGCC Color output of gcc
MagixCubic cli puzzle game
Bigt Google translate for bash with notify
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby phaseshifter » Fri May 20, 2016 7:05 pm

How about adding a spdif optical socket for audio out
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Fri May 20, 2016 10:19 pm

phaseshifter wrote:How about adding a spdif optical socket for audio out

I believe the 7 pin "DAC" header on the C0/C1/C2 can be "muxed" to output SPDIF in place of I2S input. I seem to recall reading somewhere there were plans for an adapter, but I could be mistaken.

I'm sure the audiophile "selling point" would be in an optical connection rather than a coax one. This would eliminate noise/interference from a ground loop with the Odroid device.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby alpha_one_x86 » Fri May 20, 2016 10:29 pm

crashoverride wrote:This would eliminate noise/interference from a ground loop with the Odroid device.

What?
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Fri May 20, 2016 10:43 pm

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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Fri May 20, 2016 10:49 pm

crashoverride wrote:
alpha_one_x86 wrote:What?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_loop_%28electricity%29

It's a common problem with most cheap (not sure about XLR) analog electrical audio equipment that noise creeps in via the the ground wire... like plug some low impedance headphones into an old laptop and you can hear disk seeks. Anything digital should not have this issue assuming the grounds are not closely connected or the destination device is properly buffered. Optical isolation or disconnecting the ground link will remove the issue from a cheap digital destination.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby alpha_one_x86 » Fri May 20, 2016 11:35 pm

elatllat wrote:with analog electrical audio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_shielding with the coax + numeric correction to drop error (noise) should work.
Optical provide numeric transmit (then noise/error imunity) but provide electric isolation.

I'm wrong?
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby elatllat » Fri May 20, 2016 11:45 pm

alpha_one_x86 wrote:
elatllat wrote:with analog electrical audio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_shielding with the coax + numeric correction to drop error (noise) should work.
Optical provide numeric transmit (then noise/error imunity) but provide electric isolation.

I'm wrong?

Yes your wrong; shielding is fighting the issue not avoiding it.
like no mater how good your destination is if your not avoiding the issue a really bad source can have bad results.
Image
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby rooted » Sat May 21, 2016 4:46 am

I was certain a mod would have renamed the thread title by now.

It's "Wish list" not "Which list"
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Which/Wish List for Next Gem/Gen (XU5)

Unread postby mattbot » Sun May 29, 2016 3:16 pm

rooted wrote:I was certain a mod would have renamed the thread title by now.

It's "Wish list" not "Which list"
No way, dude. That's like part of the thread's identity, by now. When I visit the forum, I even search for "Which list" to locate it.

If you see my first reply (viewtopic.php?f=55&t=18002#p121033), I made a feeble attempt to set things on the right course by editing my subject to "Wish List for Next Gen", but nobody followed and I think even replies to my post inherit their subject from the thread.

Anyway, I'm starting to gravitate towards the UP board, FWIW. One of the few things that could sell me on a competing ODROID model would be a standard form factor, such as STX. Part of my rationale is that I should (eventually) be able to find a case that would accommodate a big enough heatsink for passive cooling. But the UP board doesn't need active cooling, so it neatly sidesteps that issue.

It's not just about cooling, though. Any device with one or more SATA ports would also benefit from a standard PC-ish form factor, IMO.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby rooted » Sun May 29, 2016 4:22 pm

Don't know what the UP board is
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby mattbot » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:12 am

rooted wrote:Don't know what the UP board is
up-board.org but it's still in pre-order.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby tchiwam » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:07 am

For me it's simple:
Xu4 form and functions.

Updated with:
- A72 or A57 quad core
- >=4GB of ram (best possible BW)

Keep the same price point and I will buy 32 of them :) (Well 16 at the time)

I really like the eMMC/uSD selector
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby bleedingedge » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:55 pm

agreed with tchiwam.

64 bit and 4gb ram are crucial for the next release.
Please do add ufs 2.0 and usb type-c if possible ;)
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby kicker22004 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:25 pm

I would want 4GB of ram and for all things holy full OpenGL support. Not just OpenGL ES, but true GL. I'm starting to look at x86 boards now because i know they aren't saying full acceleration then turns out that it's only for Android. I mean if the RPi can now have OpenGL(experimental or not) then these boards should also.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Sun Jun 19, 2016 7:51 pm

kicker22004 wrote:I mean if the RPi can now have OpenGL(experimental or not) then these boards should also.

That is a marketing gimmick. Have you tried "full" OpenGL on RPI? You will find it has the exact same limitations as OpenGL ES. It does not have any more texture units than it had. It does not have any more shader uniforms than it had. It can not accept any more vertex stream data than it did. It does not have any more hardware capabilities than it had. OpenGL does not give it a PC GPU or the capabilities to run PC OpenGL software without either falling back to software emulation of missing features or crashing. GLshim provides the same functionality for everyone else without disabling your media codecs to achieve it. "Full" OpenGL is pointless unless you have actual hardware to back it up. Currently, only new NVidia Tegras do and they start at $300 for just the module.

We know the XU3/4 will get Vulkan drivers soon. Long term, that is preferable to OpenGL because you can implement OpenGL on Vulkan, but not the other way around. Vulkan is the same API on both PC and mobile. There is no Vulkan "ES".
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby kicker22004 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:30 am

crashoverride wrote:
kicker22004 wrote:I mean if the RPi can now have OpenGL(experimental or not) then these boards should also.

That is a marketing gimmick. Have you tried "full" OpenGL on RPI? You will find it has the exact same limitations as OpenGL ES. It does not have any more texture units than it had. It does not have any more shader uniforms than it had. It can not accept any more vertex stream data than it did. It does not have any more hardware capabilities than it had. OpenGL does not give it a PC GPU or the capabilities to run PC OpenGL software without either falling back to software emulation of missing features or crashing. GLshim provides the same functionality for everyone else without disabling your media codecs to achieve it. "Full" OpenGL is pointless unless you have actual hardware to back it up. Currently, only new NVidia Tegras do and they start at $300 for just the module.

We know the XU3/4 will get Vulkan drivers soon. Long term, that is preferable to OpenGL because you can implement OpenGL on Vulkan, but not the other way around. Vulkan is the same API on both PC and mobile. There is no Vulkan "ES".



Actually with the Experimental OpenGL that Raspberry Pi is beating My Odroid-XU4 in one clear area... Graphics for demos/games with OpenGL aplications. Here is my latest tests with running native Minecraft on both devices.

Link to the guide:https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=137279

On the Rpi3 it ran and loaded (slowly) but gpu was spot on to around 35fps...
On the Odroid-XU4 I build the required libs and was able to load the actual Client but was unable to click anything due to how slow the device was handling it.
I tested this on Debian Game Station jessie image with full working Mali and about 150fps in GLXgears so I know it's not the Drivers there.

Who knows maybe I did something wrong, If so can someone show me?

As for Vulkan i'm waiting for it, but i'm not sure they will support our gpu at this stage.
Even on the Wiki they state that the Mali T600 series is not supported... will this change? Maybe... by that point will I have moved on? Most likely. I'm currently placing an order for the Up-board with 4gb ram and 64GB emmc because the Kangaroo and it's dock disposition. My Odroid will just wait and see at this point.

Wiki link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:14 am

kicker22004 wrote:On the Odroid-XU4 I build the required libs and was able to load the actual Client but was unable to click anything due to how slow the device was handling it.

The issue is that the instructions are for a RPi, not an Odroid. If you follow it, you will install the mesa driver and software rendering. It does not use the glshim approach I mentioned earlier.

kicker22004 wrote:I'm currently placing an order for the Up-board

Its a shame Intel canceled the Atom. We need a variety of boards from different manufacturers to maintain healthy competition.

In regards to Vulkan, this post states there will drivers provided for XU3/4.
http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=18924&p=126120&hilit=vulkan#p125985

However, since this topic is about a future high-end Odroid, its pretty much guaranteed to have Vulkan support. As show in the wikipedia link given, Broadcom (RPi) does not have an offering likely due to the fact they have exited the mobile SoC market.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby kicker22004 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:31 am

crashoverride wrote:
kicker22004 wrote:On the Odroid-XU4 I build the required libs and was able to load the actual Client but was unable to click anything due to how slow the device was handling it.

The issue is that the instructions are for a RPi, not an Odroid. If you follow it, you will install the mesa driver and software rendering. It does not use the glshim approach I mentioned earlier.

kicker22004 wrote:I'm currently placing an order for the Up-board

Its a shame Intel canceled the Atom. We need a variety of boards from different manufacturers to maintain healthy competition.

In regards to Vulkan, this post states there will drivers provided for XU3/4.
http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=18924&p=126120&hilit=vulkan#p125985

However, since this topic is about a future high-end Odroid, its pretty much guaranteed to have Vulkan support. As show in the wikipedia link given, Broadcom (RPi) does not have an offering likely due to the fact they have exited the mobile SoC market.


Yeah I didn't install any of the Mesa things because I didn't want to break my (acceleration). Glxgears is still working so I know that's fine. As for using glshim i'm not to familiar with that or how to go about that. All I did was compile the needed libs and place them.

Ahh ok I know glshim but unfortunately it wouldn't have helped here due to only supporting GL 1 and Minecraft is 2.1. So yeah Rpi is beating use in this regard.. no other area tho.
I understand why Intel is calling it quits as far as the SoC line but it does suck when we need better options for the few users that still hope for a micro desktop with Normal functionality and not just in Android.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:45 pm

kicker22004 wrote:Ahh ok I know glshim but unfortunately it wouldn't have helped here due to only supporting GL 1 and Minecraft is 2.1. So yeah Rpi is beating use in this regard.. no other area tho.

The hard part is GL 1 on GLES2. GL 2.1 on GLES 2.0 is significantly simpler because the GLES 2 API is effectively GL2.1 with all the GL1 stuff removed. Back in the early days, I switched between GL 2.1 and GLES 2 simply by swapping out a header file in my code. Now days, there is no point: GLES won.

As of today, it probably requires much less effort to run "hacked" Minecraft on a RPi than an Odroid. This is not to say its a hardware issue that can only be solved by OpenGL support; rather, nobody has put the time into it. Its far easier to just spend $99 on a different board than to "pick up a compiler" and make it work.

We need more than "OpenGL" as a marketing term in a future Odroid. The immediate value it presents is running an X11 desktop with GL acceleration in addition to GL enabled applications like Blender. A system like RPi only has 256M of GPU memory to use making GL support on it a mere novelty.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby kicker22004 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:13 pm

Exactly, I mean my Odroid is a beast...in CLI lol. I actually only have a GUI installed because i'm testing some games out and got to poking around with things for a youtube thing. Now i'm just irritated at the fact that a cheap RPi3 has a one up on this board for no clear reason other then proprietary crap. I don't care what comes first at this point.. Wayland or Vulkan... just need something to help the Desktop experience.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby crashoverride » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:52 pm

kicker22004 wrote:Now i'm just irritated at the fact that a cheap RPi3 has a one up on this board for no clear reason other then proprietary crap.

I doubt I will lose any sleep over RPi3 playing hacked Minecraft better than an Odroid. ;) From a developer perspective, the RPi is no more GL enabled than the Odroid. "Just enough GL" to run Minecraft is a lot different from a GL compliant driver.

The "proprietary crap" labels covers a lot, including Minecraft itself.

It does not require a multi-million dollar engineering effort to make it work on Odroid. Just trace the GL calls it makes (there are lots of tools that do that) and write a trivial wrapper to GLES2. It really is that simple and you will be the envy of all your peers! The only advantage the RPi has is that someone else has done the work for it. Additionally, you can get Minecraft on Android for all Odroids. While it may be a different edition, it receives updates and new features.
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Re: Which List for Next Gem (XU5)

Unread postby tchiwam » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:16 pm

Then I guess the solution here is to start a thread with glshim and develop it until it works with all the features we want ?
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